The Muscle-Building Workout Plan for Skinny Beginners
Most skinny guys are eager to build muscle fast. I don’t blame them. I was the same way. When I weighed 130 pounds, with a BMI under 17, I was sick of being skinny. I wanted to get out of that situation as quickly as possible.
The best way to build muscle is to lift weights. Most of us know that. But I had just graduated from university with a degree in graphic design, I’d never been active, and I didn’t know a single person who lifted weights. Well, I knew one person who shoplifted, but I didn’t want any part of that. And when you’re that far outside of a subculture, it can be hard to know where to start or what to do.
Since then, I’ve gained 70 pounds, going from a 65-pound bench press to a 315-pound bench press. My business partner, Marco, has helped college, professional, and Olympic athletes bulk up. Together, we’ve spent over a decade helping millions of readers and over 10,000 skinny clients build muscle (naturally).
Fortunately, once skinny guys start following a good workout plan and eating a proper bulking diet, we can gain muscle faster than any other body type. Our frames are empty and eager for muscle growth. Most of us are able to gain 25 pounds within our first 6 months of working out. Some of our clients have gained 40.
In this article, I’ll walk you through the process of training for muscle growth. By the end, you’ll know exactly what to do.
The History of Muscle-Building Workouts
The Very First Muscle Size Program for Skinny Guys
Back in the 1920s, Charles Atlas came up with the first muscle-building program for skinny guys. This was back in the good old days, back before the word “ectomorph” was coined, back before skinny guys even knew they could build muscle. Back then, being skinny was just a body type. If you were skinny, you were skinny. That was it.
The problem was, the good old days weren’t so good for skinny guys. Even back in the 1920s, muscular men got more attention from women and more respect from other men. The skinny guys didn’t want to be skinny, but they didn’t realize they could do anything about it. It was considered an immutable trait.
Charles Atlas saw an opportunity there. He designed a workout program that he could market to these skinny guys. He called it the Dynamic Resistance Fitness Course. He placed advertisements in magazines calling out to “98-pound weaklings” who were desperate to bulk up.
It worked, too. All over the world, pre-ectomorph ectomorphs began placing their orders, eager to finally build enough muscle to look good on the beach, eager to stop having sand kicked in their faces.
Atlas’ theory was that you could “pit muscle against muscle” to create the tension needed to stimulate muscle growth. For example, when you flex your biceps, you need to clench both your biceps and your triceps. The two muscles work agonistically, allowing them to flex against each other.
Atlas claimed that this muscle-against-muscle tension would stimulate muscle growth. Then, as your muscles become stronger, the resistance becomes more intense, allowing you to become stronger still. Best of all, you could do this workout program from the privacy of your own home. No equipment required.
The Fall of Charles Atlas
However, Charles Atlas was soon accused of false advertising. Bob Hoffman, the founder of York Barbell, believed lifting weights was the only way to build an impressively muscular physique. He saw that Atlas was impressively muscular and figured he must be a weight lifter. When Atlas claimed that he built his physique with his bodyweight routine, Hoffman accused him of being a liar—a fraud!
Hoffman brought Atlas to court. On the stand, Atlas proclaimed his innocence. He really did do his flexing routine every day. However, when the lawyers asked him if he also lifted weights, he admitted that he did, occasionally, but only to test his strength. Under cross-examination, he admitted that he “tested his strength” 3–4 times per week. Charles Atlas didn’t even trust his own workout routine.
A 2014 study published in the European Journal of Applied Physiology found that flexing does indeed stimulate a little bit of muscle growth. Doing a biceps flexing routine three times per week for 12 weeks produced a 4% increase in both biceps and triceps size. However, those results pale in comparison to the amount of muscle you can build with a proper workout routine.
This is the grey area that most workout programs live in. They work, yes, but not very well. And they work on most people, yeah, but not on everyone. This is how skinny guys wind up trying workout routine after workout routine without ever getting results.
The Face of P90X Was a Bodybuilder
P90X is a bodyweight workout routine supposed to help guys build muscle, but it’s fronted by a bodybuilder who built his physique with weights. When you see Tony Horton leading the P90X workouts, you might assume he got in shape by doing P90X. But you can never make that assumption. Horton built his body by lifting weights. He was a bodybuilder.
I don’t mean to single out P90X. This is standard practice in the fitness industry and is often relatively innocent. You’ll have a guy who builds muscle by lifting weights. Once he’s happy with his muscle size, he loses interest in building more muscle, so he shifts his focus to other forms of physical activity. That’s what happened with Horton. He never lied. People just never bothered to check.
The Colorado Experiment and the Magic of Muscle Memory
Jump forward to the 70s, when Arthur Jones introduced his most famous idea: High-Intensity Training (HIT). The idea behind HIT is that you do a single set for each exercise, moving the weight extremely slowly and going all the way to total muscular failure.
HIT is quite difficult to do with free weights. It’s a totally unathletic way of lifting. It’s hard to move a heavy weight slowly without losing your balance. But that was okay. Arthur Jones made his living selling exercise machines. That was how he monetized his strange new workout routine.
To advertise his exercise machines, Jones enlisted the help of his protégé, a professional bodybuilder, Casey Viator. Over the course of 28 days, Arthur Jones coached Viator through the HIT program. They trained three times per week, with each workout lasting 30 minutes. In a single month, Casey Viator gained an astounding 63 pounds of muscle.
This was unheard of at the time. It’s still unheard of to this day. Was this revolutionary new bulking routine really that powerful? Unfortunately, no. It wasn’t. A recent study looked at how training volume impacts muscle growth. I’ve extrapolated the results for a 150-pound man:
- 1 set of squats per week: 0 pounds muscle, 0 pounds fat, squat strength went up 36 pounds.
- 4 sets of squats per week: 0 pounds muscle, -3 pounds fat, squat strength went up 46 pounds.
- 8 sets of squats per week: 5 pounds muscle, -2.5 pounds fat, squat strength went up 82 pounds.
In this study, doing a single set per exercise wasn’t enough to stimulate a noticeable amount of muscle growth. 4 sets were better, but the participants weren’t eating enough, so they weren’t able to build any muscle. 8 sets were enough to cause simultaneous muscle growth and fat loss.
That leaves us with a mystery. If Casey Viator’s methods were worse, why were his results so extraordinary? There are a few possible explanations:
- Casey Viator had some of the best muscle-building genetics in the world. He’d won the title of Mr. Universe at age 19. He was an extreme outlier.
- Viator was regaining lost muscle mass. Viator injured one of his fingers one year before the experiment. He got a tetanus shot to prevent infection but had a severe allergic reaction to the shot. He lost his ability to eat and exercise for almost a year, losing dozens of pounds of muscle.
- Viator was being paid for every pound of muscle he gained. He wanted the most dramatic transformation possible. So, for two months, he restricted himself to 800 calories per day, losing as much muscle as he could.
- After his HIT workouts, Viator supposedly snuck in extra sets. Viator knew that doing more work would stimulate more muscle growth, so he put in the extra work.
- Viator was presumably using PEDs during the experiment.
Over the past five decades, research has consistently shown that slow lifting isn’t a good way to build muscle (study, study, study). Neither is low-volume training (systematic review). Taking sets to total muscle failure doesn’t help either (study, study).
Tim Ferriss & Occam’s Protocol
In his Geek to Freak experiment, the best-selling author Tim Ferriss followed a HIT workout plan, using it to rebuild 34 pounds of muscle mass in 28 days. Like Viator, Ferriss was detrained and underfed in the year leading up to his transformation, which allowed him to regain muscle incredibly fast. Ferriss was fully open about that.
When Tim Ferriss published his fitness book, The 4-Hour Body, his workout routine became popular with skinny guys trying to build muscle. They saw that Tim Ferris was skinny in the before photo and muscular in the after photo, not realizing the role muscle memory played in his transformation.
Eventually, it became clear that most skinny guys couldn’t reproduce Tim Ferriss’ dramatic results, so the routine faded from popularity.
The Liver King Scandal
Perhaps the most nefarious deceivers of all are the guys who falsely claim to be natural. The so-called “fake natties.” These guys build impossible physiques by abusing PEDs, then sell supplements that ostensibly produce those impossible results.
The most famous example is the Liver King, who made millions by selling “ancestral supplements” and teaching a primal lifestyle. It eventually came out that he was using tens of thousands of dollars of PEDs every month. He was forced to admit the lie, and his supplements immediately lost their lustre.
Unconventional Methods are Less Likely to Work
Plenty of bizarre muscle-building workouts are marketed to skinny guys. In my teens and early twenties, I tried my fair share of them. I thought that maybe, just maybe, a radical new workout program could produce radical new muscle growth.
We’re quick to toss out conventional wisdom because we want to get better-than-conventional results. But the very things that make unconventional workouts appealing are what make them unlikely to work.
We forget that conventional methods are able to consistently produce great results. We averaged out the results of guys bulking with our Bony to Beastly Program. On average, they gained 26 pounds and added 2 inches to their arms within 6 months.
There’s no magic method. It’s just a proper combination of good hypertrophy training, a nutritious bulking diet, eating enough food, and living a healthy lifestyle that supports muscle growth. We also offer feedback on every progress update, answer questions, and help them deal with issues. That’s how we’re able to guarantee results.
The Best Workouts for Building Muscle
General Fitness Workouts
General fitness workouts are great, but they aren’t great for building muscle. Insofar as you challenge your muscles, you can stimulate a bit of muscle growth, but these workouts are mainly designed to challenge your aerobic system. Your heart will grow fitter, you’ll build more blood vessels, and your body will use oxygen more efficiently, giving you greater endurance.
These adaptations are fantastic. Cardio is an important part of a good fitness routine. But it isn’t the best way to stimulate muscle growth. Not even close.
Strength Training Workouts
At the other end of the spectrum, we have strength training. This one is tricky. Some people use “strength training” to refer to any type of resistance training. In that sense, every workout routine is strength training. That isn’t wrong, but it’s confusing, and it’s not how lifters talk.
Among lifters, strength training is the type of training designed to increase how much you can lift for one all-out repetition. It’s designed to increase your 1-rep max. Think of sports like powerlifting, where you’re judged by how much you can squat, bench, and deadlift for a single repetition. The stronger you are in your weight class, the better your score is.
Strength training absolutely stimulates muscle growth, but the main purpose is to make you stronger for your size. The main adaptation is neurological. Your muscles prefer to pace themselves, rationing out their effort over several repetitions. Strength training helps you override that instinct, contracting all your muscle fibres at once.
But maximal strength is only one component of strength. There’s also strength endurance: how many reps you can do with a given weight. You can go from benching 65 pounds for 5 reps to benching 225 pounds for 15 reps. That kind of adaptation is arguably even more important than increasing your 1-rep max.
Bodybuilding Workouts
Bodybuilding is another word with a few different definitions. Some people use “bodybuilding” to refer to any type of training that stimulates muscle growth. By that definition, bodybuilding lines up perfectly with our goal.
Among lifters, bodybuilding usually means training for aesthetics. That can mean training for muscle growth, getting spray tans, learning posing routines, and cutting down to very low body fat percentages (more on how to cut here).
You might hear that bodybuilders are big but weak. That isn’t quite true. Bodybuilding is fantastic for improving your strength endurance. You’ll grow bigger and stronger, just without any special emphasis on increasing your 1-rep max on the squat, bench press, and deadlift. You can also do different variations of those lifts, like Romanian deadlifts or step-ups instead of conventional barbell deadlifts. That makes bodybuilding an impressively versatile, safe, and healthy way to work out.
The unhealthy side of natural bodybuilding comes from the obsession with extreme leanness. But that isn’t really our concern. Most casual lifters aren’t interested in torturing themselves to get down to 6% body fat. And besides, that has nothing to do with bodybuilding workout routines.
Still, bodybuilding isn’t quite synonymous with training for muscle growth. It’s possible to bulk up without focusing solely on aesthetics. We can get even more specific.
PowerBuilding Workouts
PowerBuilding is a combination of powerlifting and bodybuilding. This style of training drew me in. I wanted to be big, strong, and look good. That desire still lingers. I’ve worked up to a 315-pound bench press. I’m working on a 500-pound deadlift. I want to hit those strength benchmarks. I love getting stronger at the big compound lifts.
Still, there’s a better way to train for muscle growth. There’s no need to train like a powerlifter while bulking up. It adds extra effort without adding extra muscle size. There’s also no need to practice bodybuilding poses or anything that goes along with bodybuilding.
Hypertrophy Training
Hypertrophy training means training for muscle growth. Bodybuilders do hypertrophy training when they’re bulking up. Powerlifters do hypertrophy training when they’re trying to get bigger and stronger. Marco’s specialty was helping top athletes use hypertrophy training to improve their athletic performance.
Here are the hypertrophy training principles that will help you build more muscle:
- Challenge your muscles. Your muscles grow when you bring them to the brink of failure. Get within 1–2 reps of failure. The only way to learn how to stop just shy of failure is to fail sometimes. Don’t be afraid to push yourself, especially on isolation exercises.
- Train every muscle 3x per week. A rigorous workout stimulates 2–3 days of muscle growth, so you can keep your muscles growing steadily all week long by training them every second or third day. The simplest way to do that is with 3 full-body workouts per week (research breakdown).
- Always try to outlift yourself. Every workout, try to lift more than the last workout, whether that’s lifting more weight, doing more reps, or lifting with better technique. Fighting for improvement drives muscle growth (more on progressive overload here).
- Focus on the big compound exercises. Think of goblet squats, push-ups, Romanian deadlifts, and chin-ups. Those four movements train all the major muscle groups in your body. You can build a tremendous amount of muscle with them.
- Fill in the gaps with isolation lifts. Some muscles aren’t trained properly by compound exercises. Some of those muscles are tremendously important. For example, your biceps can’t engage properly during pulling movement. You need biceps curls. Similarly, your triceps need triceps extensions, and your shoulders need lateral raises.
- Do 6–20 reps per set most of the time. You can occasionally drop to 4 reps per set or climb as high as 40. But spend most of your time lifting in a moderate rep range. Doing 6–20 reps stimulates the most muscle growth per set (research breakdown).
- Do 2–4 sets per exercise. If you’re following the rest of these principles, that should be just enough to maximize your rate of muscle growth (research breakdown).
Let’s go through these principles one by one. Then, we can assemble them into a workout routine.
How to Train for Muscle Size
Rest, Recover & Outlift Yourself
A rigorous workout stresses your muscles, provoking an adaption. Then you’ll need to wait (and eat!) as your muscles recover and grow. During that period, you’ll feel sore, and your muscles will be weaker. But within 2–3 days, they’ll grow back bigger and stronger than before.
That cycle of rest, recovery, and growth gives our workout plan a cadence:
- Monday: Lift
- Tuesday: Rest
- Wednesday: Lift more
- Thursday: Rest
- Friday: Lift even more
- Saturday: Rest
- Sunday: Rest
One way to progressively overload your exercises is to add weight. That’s why weights were invented. One workout, you curl 20-pound dumbbells. Next workout, you curl 25-pound dumbbells.
You can also add extra repetitions. If you get 11, 10, and 9 repetitions (30 reps) in one workout, try to get 31 or more repetitions next time. That, too, will encourage your muscles to continue growing.
Barbells, dumbbells, and exercise machines are all great for this. Some bodyweight exercises are great, too. Whatever you’re using, the important thing is to always strive to outlive yourself.
Keep Your Muscles Growing All Week Long
A rigorous workout stimulates 2–4 days of muscle growth in the muscles you train. When your muscles recover, you can stimulate a new wave of muscle growth (study). This is why doing a 3-day full-body split tends to be the quickest and most reliable way to build muscle, especially for beginners.
- Monday: Full-body workout
- Tuesday: Rest
- Wednesday: Full-body workout
- Thursday: Rest
- Friday: Full-body workout
- Saturday: Rest
- Sunday: Rest
There are other ways to organize your workouts. You could do a workout split, where you split your body up into different body parts, training a portion of your body every day. Beginners tend to benefit from full rest days, though. Better to use full-body workouts for now.
If you’re skinny and desperate to build muscle, I know it can be tempting to do more. The best way to build muscle, though, is to put your full effort into your workouts, take a full day of rest, and then do it again, focusing on outlifting yourself.
Beginners can build muscle incredibly fast. 3 full-body workouts per week are enough to maximize your rate of muscle growth. Invest the rest of your effort into eating a good bulking diet, getting to bed on time, and living a healthy lifestyle. That’s how you’ll get the best bulking results.
The 4 Big Compound Lifts
Most strength training programs focus on the Big 3: the squat, bench press, and deadlift. There’s wisdom in that. These exercises do an incredible job of stimulating muscle growth and measuring strength. We can do even better.
If you’re already good at lifting weights, we have an article on the best compound lifts. But if you’re still a beginner, it helps to start at the beginning. Start with simpler exercises that encourage better form. You’ll build muscle faster and more easily. It’s also safer and will do a better job of teaching you the proper lifting form.
Here are the best exercises for gaining your first 20–30 pounds:
- Goblet squats: where you squat while holding a dumbbell in front of you. These work your quads, glutes, core, and upper body. Holding a dumbbell in front of you shifts your centre of gravity forward, keeping your torso more upright and allowing you to squat much deeper. These are amazing for building muscle until you can do sets of 12+ reps with the heaviest dumbbell.
- Romanian Deadlifts: where you start in a standing position, keep your knees stiff, and focus on bending at the hips, lowering the weight until you feel a deep stretch on your hamstrings. These work your hips, hamstrings, and all the muscles in your back.
- Push-ups (or the bench press): where you push your body away from the ground while keeping your torso rigid. Push-ups are famous for training your chest, shoulders, and triceps, but they also train your abs and serratus muscles (under your armpits). Until you grow too strong for them, they’re even more powerful than the bench press.
- Chin-ups (or lat pulldowns or rows): where you pull with your back and biceps. They also do a great job of bulking up your abs and strengthening your grip. If you aren’t strong enough yet, start with lowered chin-ups, lat pulldowns, rows, and/or dumbbell pullovers.
I’d already gained 40 pounds by the time I tested the first version of our Bony to Beastly Bulking Program. Going back to these beginner variations provoked a new wave of muscle growth, helping me gain another 15 pounds.
These variations are simple, but that’s good. The better your coordination is while you lift, the easier it will be to stimulate muscle growth. The challenge will come from the weight you’re lifting.
As you get stronger, you’ll need to find ways to load your lifts heavier. That’s when 100-pound goblet squats turn into 150-pound barbell front squats. That’s the approach we take in our program. Every few weeks, we progress some of the lifts. By the end, you’ll be proficient at all the big exercises.
The Power of Isolation Exercises
Not every muscle responds well to compound exercises. Our bodies are built to do more than just 4 movements. For example, your biceps don’t just flex your arms, they also pull your arms forwards at the shoulder joint, interfering with pulling movements, and preventing them from fully engaging.
That’s where biceps curls come in. The long and short head balance one another out at the shoulder joint, helping to keep it stable while you flex your arms. This allows you to fully engage both heads of your biceps, stimulating twice as much biceps growth.
There are other muscles, like your side delts, that aren’t trained very well by most compound exercises. Overhead presses can work, but not as well as simpler exercises like lateral raises.
You may also want to work some muscles a little harder. Push-ups do a great job of working your entire chest, but if you’re especially eager for your chest to grow, it can help to add in some dumbbell chest flies.
If you’re eager to bulk up a certain area of your body, make sure you have exercises that train those muscles properly. If you want bigger arms, you should include biceps curls and triceps extensions. If you want broader shoulders, you should include lateral raises.
Here are a few isolation exercises you probably want to include in your workout routine:
- Lateral raises to build broader shoulders.
- Biceps curls and triceps extensions to build bigger arms.
- Chest flyes to bulk up the chest.
- Planks to bulk up your abs.
- Neck curls to bulk up your neck.
The Workout Plan
This is a simple workout program designed to maximize muscle growth overall, with a bit of extra emphasis on the areas you’re probably most eager to grow. There are simpler workout plans than this one, but they aren’t as effective. There are more complicated workout routines, but they aren’t any more effective.
I’ll link every exercise to one of Marco’s tutorial videos. Marco’s videos are simple on purpose. The best way to learn how to lift weights is to watch a demonstration, get a couple of cues, and then practice. Too much talk of bar path, joint angles, and mind-muscle connection can destroy a beginner’s natural athleticism.
It’s like learning how to walk. If you got a lesson on ankle and knee angles to optimize your walking gait, you’d become conscious of unconscious movements, and your gait would worsen. That approach to teaching exercises can work as an intermediate lifter, but beginners benefit more from simple exercises, simple cues, imitation, and practice.
Workout 1
| Exercise | Sets | Reps |
|---|---|---|
| Romanian Deadlifts | 3 sets | 9 reps |
| Push-ups | 3 sets | AMRAP |
| Dumbbell Bench Press | 3 sets | 11 reps |
| Dumbbell Rows | 3 sets | 11 reps |
| Biceps Curls | 2 sets | 11 reps |
| Triceps Extensions | 2 sets | 11 reps |
| Lateral Raises | 2 sets | 11 reps |
You can go through the entire workout routine exercise by exercise, but if you can, I recommend doing them as supersets. For example, you could do a set of Romanian deadlifts, rest a minute, drop down for a set of push-ups, rest a minute, and then do your second set of Romanian deadlifts. That way, while your hips and back are resting, you’re training your pushing muscles, and vice versa.
Supersets stimulate just as much muscle growth as regular sets, they’re better for improving your fitness, and they cut the length of your workouts in half.
Workout 2
| Exercise | Sets | Reps |
|---|---|---|
| Goblet Squats | 3 sets | 9 reps |
| Underhand Lat Pulldowns | 3 sets | 9 reps |
| Romanian Deadlifts | 3 sets | 9 reps |
| Push-ups | 3 sets | AMRAP |
| Front Planks | 2 sets | 5-10 slow breaths |
| Side Planks | 2 sets | 5-10 slow breaths |
| Farmer Carries | 2 sets | 40 steps |
This workout is similar to the first, but it brings in goblet squats and uses different isolation exercises. By alternating between two different workouts, you’ll build a more balanced physique, gain more versatile strength, and keep your tendons and joints feeling fresher.
Download the Workout Spreadsheets
Most serious lifters prefer spreadsheets over lifting apps because of how customizable they are. For example, we’ve designed these sheets so you can choose your exercises from dropdown menus. You can also move anything around however you like. Plus, you get free access forever.
We’ve built this workout routine into Google Spreadsheets. You can use them on your phone for free with the Google Sheets app. They allow you to record how much weight you lift and how many reps you get.
get the google spreadsheet of the
free beginner’s full-body workout
Get the workout as a Google spreadsheet. You’ll be able to pick from exercise alternatives, fill out the sheet, and get our beginner’s warm-up.
Plus, we’ll make sure you’re on the b2B newsletter, and send you all of our best muscle-building content.
Follow the plan closely. Take it seriously. Results come from consistent effort. Every workout, your goal should be to outlift yourself, lifting more weight or eking out more reps than last time.
If a couple of weeks go by where you don’t make progress, you’ll need to find the source of the problem. Small improvements add up to impressive transformations. But if you’ve hit a wall, continuing to walk into it won’t get you anywhere.*
*If you grew up playing RPG games, this may come as a surprise. I had great fun taping down my keys so that my character would run into the corner for hours, levelling up their endurance. Unfortunately, that method doesn’t work in real life.
The End
I know this has been a long article. I know this can be overwhelming at first. Start with the first step and go from there. Do your first workout, even if it isn’t perfect. Once you’ve started, it’s easy to improve. As long as you challenge your muscles, you’ll stimulate muscle growth. Mastery will come with practice.
Alright, that’s it for now. If you want more muscle-building information, we have a muscle-building newsletter. If you want us to walk you through the entire process of building muscle, check out our Bony to Beastly Program. It includes a 5-month workout routine, diet guide, recipe book, tutorial videos for every exercise, and one-on-one support from us in our online community.
Shane Duquette is the founder of Outlift, Bony to Beastly, and Bony to Bombshell, each with millions of readers. He's a Certified Conditioning Coach (CCC), has gained 70 pounds, and has over a decade of experience helping more than 15,000 people build muscle. He also has a degree in fine arts, but those are inversely correlated with muscle growth.
Marco Walker-Ng is the founder and strength coach of Outlift, Bony to Beastly, and Bony to Bombshell. He's a certified trainer (PTS) and nutrition coach (PN) with a Bachelor's degree in Health Sciences (BHSc) from the University of Ottawa. He has over 15 years of experience helping people gain muscle and strength, with clients including college, professional, and Olympic athletes.
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Great info. I’ve read your post on and off for a while and I really appreciate what you guys are doing. I’m a 36 year old skinny-guy and have gone through all the motions trying to gain weight. I like this article because it addresses an issue I noticed with strong-lifts 5×5. I recently watch a video of a guy who had been doing 5×5 for a year and weighing, I think he weighted 150lbs and was deadlifiting over 300lbs. It was incredible to see someone my size lifting that much weight. But I was left wondering why he wasn’t bigger. He had gained 20lbs, and looked great, but dead lifting 300+lbs I would have thought he would have been much bigger. I’m pretty sure this article explains why. I love doing 5×5, it simple and builds real strength, but being a skinny guy, I would like to max my size. Anyway, thanks for the great info again. Oh, also I believe your program is legit because of the photo’s of your members. There not huge, ripped dudes. Being a skinny guy for years, the before and after pictures are compelling because gaining 20lbs to guys like us is huge. Most program show guys with huge gains, and I know thats total bs.
Hey Justin, thanks for the kind words, man – glad you dug it!
Exactly. On one hand you could say that it’s super badass to be able to deadlift 2x bodyweight, and you’d be right. On the other hand, if the goal is to gain bodyweight, you’re right, might be best focusing on emphasizing building muscle mass a little more alongside your strength.
And I agree, I think 5×5’s are sweet. Simple and effective strength builders, and quite a bit of fun. I managed to add a lot to my bench press with 5×5’s, and was able to do what you describe – people were impressed I could bench press so much for such a little guy. The problem was I didn’t want to be a little guy …
It’s not like it went to waste though, and having all that chest strength helped me very quickly build up chest size.I think you’ll find that any strength gains you made lifting heavy will very much help you build up mass 🙂
Shane, great article, as usual: structurized and pleasant-to-read!
Got few questions!
So what is optimal overall volume per muscle group, if I train 3 times a week?
In lack of equipment, can I do only one exercise for muscle group for more sets, rather than doing couple of exercises for fewer sets?
Aaand the last one 🙂 If there any way to increase tension without increasing weight on the bar? For example, will it do the trick: to keep the time of lowering the weight the same, but to extend the lifting time up to 3-4 seconds? The same reps, same weight, staying in the “hypothrophy TUT zone”, but harder execution of exercise?
THANK YOU in advance!!! 🙂
Thanks Bogdan, I appreciate that!
Kreiger’s meta-analysis of all the relevant studies looking into training volume and hypertrophy found that muscle mass gains were optimized at 16 sets per muscle group per week if you’re lifting bodybuilder style.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19661829
it would likely depend on the muscle group, muscle fibre type, intensity, how much weight you’re lifting, etc:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15335243
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17465271
If you were primarily doing strength training, for example, and lifting in very low rep ranges, you might need to reduce the volume to about half that. That would optimize strength gains at the expensive of hypertrophy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24714538
Fantastic article, when I started my training last year I def fell into the hypertrophy category.
Thanks Gav. Starting with hypertrophy isn’t a bad place to start at all. Bodybuilding is fairly safe and from there it’s easy to work in some more strength lifts, if you wanted 🙂
Hey Shane,
Awesome article! I’ve been looking forward to reading it for a while, haha 🙂
I have a few questions– firstly, above you mentioned doing pec flys in addition to bench pressing to stimulate the chest more– would you recommend supersetting those with the BP or doing them as a separate exercise?
Second, I am a member of the XC team at my high school from about September to late October. My goal right now is to weightlift consistently until the start of the XC season, because then I’ll be running almost every day. Is it possible to maintain the muscle I’ll have gained over the summer by lifting once a week in addition to all of that running? It seems like a lot of exercise… but can it be done?
I just want to say thank you for these awesome, free articles! You guys are awesome! God bless!
Hey Eli, glad you liked it!
Haha yeah, I’ve been saying I was going to post it for a while now, eh?
I think total volume would be more important than the timing of it, so I think supersets would work well, as would doing them later on in the workout. Which would be better? I’m not sure.
Have you seen our article on cardio?
https://bonytobeastly.com/should-you-do-cardio-while-bulking/
Long story short, I think you would be able to maintain your muscle just fine, so long as you keep eating well, eat enough that you aren’t losing a significant amount of weight, and keep lifting heavy. Lifting once a week should be fine, so long as you hit each muscle group and maintain strength. Once you already have the muscle mass built up, it doesn’t take a very high training volume to maintain it. That would free up plenty of recovery ability to work on your XC 🙂
I hope that helps, and good luck man!
Hey Shane, thanks for the advice! I just have one more question– so as much as I’d like to use your program, I simply can’t afford it right now. I’ve been looking around for routines that are created for ectomorphs–would you recommend a two-workout program performed three times a week, with exercises like bench press,barbell rows, bicep curls for one workout and deadlifts, pull ups, etc for the second? Or a routine that has a chest/triceps day, back/biceps day, and a legs/shoulders day? or does it not really matter as long as my nutrition is in check?
your website rocks!!! thank you!!!
Quality of your workouts matters a ton, even if your nutrition is in check. Both components are very important, although you can certainly make good progress even if you aren’t training/eating perfectly well, especially at first!
We do full body workouts. That isn’t the only way to train optimally, just our preferred way. A triple split done twice per week can work equally well, for example. (push, pull, legs, push, pull, legs, rest.) An upper/lower split is also effective (and you’d probably train four times per week in that case). I prefer to train just three times per week though, so we make our workouts a little longer (about an hour) and we work each major muscle group each time.
Our program certainly isn’t the only rad one out there. I’d recommend finding a good program that you trust and actually following it how it’s programmed. Volume is a finicky thing, and if you take a program that’s already optimized and then start doing it more or less frequently than recommended you might run into issues there. So if you find an upper/lower split, do it the number of times the person who programmed that workout recommends, not more and not less. Does that make sense?
my questions are answered! thanks a ton!
Your claim that “low volume training is ineffective compared to higher volume training,” in particular that eight sets are better than four sets, seems unsupported by the quoted papers. Some of these papers’ conclusions say that three sets are better than one, and some say there is no difference between one and a greater number of sets (between three and twelve). While you may have found one data point for which eight sets was clearly better than less sets, none of papers’ authors make this claim more generally.
This is not to say your contention isn’t true, only that you should support it with more relevant evidence.
Hey MC, thanks for holding me accountable!
I tried my best not to cherry pick the data, but rather to post every study looking into volume, convenient or not. I’m not invested in high or low volume training – I’ll gladly do whichever works best.
This study looks at ALL the studies done into volume and came to the conclusion that higher volume training improves muscle growth by around 40%!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20300012
This meta-analysis looking into all relevant studies about the relationship between strength and volume found that higher volume let to 46% greater strength gains:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19661829
While some studies do show no statistical significance, this is perhaps due to the small subject size, short during of the studies, and the high variability in how well people respond to weightlifting. This makes it very easy for a study to prove statistical significance, but if you look at the actual results of the studies … I would very much prefer to be in the higher volume groups, because they tend to do better!
It’s like the bicep hypertrophy graph in the article, where the conclusion of the study is that no statistical significance was detected … yet the guys doing curls nevertheless made WAY better gains. It’s just that there weren’t many study participants, the duration of the study was relatively short given how long muscle growth takes, and there was a lot of variation between individuals.
As more studies come out, this seems to lend support to this … but I’m super excited to see new research come out on this topic. This paper by Schoenfeld was super fascinating, and raises some interesting questions about the relationship between how heavy you lift and ideal volume. It showed that if powerlifters began lifting with higher volume, they made size gains equivalent to a bodybuilder’s … but became much more fatigued, meanwhile the bodybuilders were feeling fresh and may have responded to even higher volume training!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24714538
I’m totally game to adjust my opinion based on new evidence though, so I’m stoked for more to become available! 🙂
Enjoyed the article… very informative. I’m not sure that the study you cite is conclusive, and it wasn’t very specific in terms of, how intensely each set of squats were performed. I have read guidance from other bodybuilding coaches and authors that suggest that hardgainers shouldn’t max out squats or deadlifts for more than 1 or 2 sets, with the other sets being low rep warm up sets.
Hmm, I would assume that guys who have a harder time gaining would want to do a HIGHER volume to better their chances of making consistent gains. If any signs of overtraining start to crop up though, we always tell guys to reduce volume and/or intensity, but that very very rarely happens – I can only think of a couple occasions.
With that said, we don’t “max out” on our lifts per say. In order to keep our volume high and recover well we don’t usually go to failure, especially on the bigger lifts with lower rep ranges (as those would be the ones that would most tax our recovery abilities).
As for intensity in the studies, these studies normally go VERY hard. Like … they have a researcher standing over you making sure that you very nearly die. They’re often performed to absolute failure, and the participants normally hate life. If anything, you can normally get away with training a little MORE than the people in the studies, since it’s very hard to go that hard in a realer life setting.
This is true in the squat study we used above – they used 80% of their 1RM and went to muscular failure. Three minute rest between sets.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21451937
Hi!
¿What do you think about Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1 program? I dont have money to afford B2B program but i managed to get the 531 program for free and it focuses strength and hypertrophy. ¿Have you heard of it?
This would fit the description outlined in the strength training section. It’s a pretty textbook powerlifting strength program. So overall I think you would make great strength gains and probably decent size gains too (if you’ve got your nutrition dialled in). Whether it’s appropriate for you or not would depend on your goals and experience level 🙂
Hey Shane great article and website. By following your recommendations I have gained 10 pounds in 6 weeks (currently 5’10” 150pounds). Thanks for taking the time to write all of these articles. They are so informational and easy to read I actually didn’t realize you guys were selling a program till a couple days after discovering the site haha. I will be buying it soon! Thank you!
Ah that’s awesome John – that’s over a pound per week. Congratulations!
Stoked to see what you’ll be able to do with b2B, too. Hope to see you in the community soon!
In the meantime, good luck and keep it up 🙂
hey Shane thanks for the support! My only issue now is I’m having a hard time recovering post workout. For the past 1 1/2 weeks I’ve been sore for 2 days. Im pretty sure I’m eating enough and have been also drinking protien shakes post work out. it also feels like it could be tendon soreness mixed with muscle soreness. should I take a week off? I love working out and don’t want too, is doing a light workout for a week OK?
thanks!
Soreness isn’t necessarily bad, especially if it’s only for a couple weeks, and not month after month after month. You might be overreaching though, and if you sustain that for a few months it can lead to overtraining.
It could be that your intensity is too high for what you’re doing (i.e. you’re going too close to failure), that you’re lifting too heavy too often (i.e. your rep ranges are very low and your volume is high), or just that your volume is too high in general (too many sets / reps per muscle group per week).
A light week could help! I would go easy on the volume maybe, not necessarily the heaviness. So for example instead of doing four sets of heavy bench press, you’d do just two sets of heavy bench press.
Thanks for the help! you guys have been awesome. I will tone down the sets for now. I typically do 4 sets for compound workouts. (1 warm up 12 reps.
2 moderate weight 10 reps, and 1 max load for 4-6reps. I do some accesorie workouts (fly’s and curls) and for those I do 2-3 sets for moderate weight. When I start the B2B I’m sure it will only get more efficient.
Thanks again for the reply!
Terrific article. Just found your site, and it’s the bomb BIGGY. Thanks for all the research and great advice, and for sharing your fitness-nerd love with us hardgainers.
I shudder at the years I’ve lost as a 42-year-old ectomorph beating my head against the wall on mesomorph-friendly workouts, and wish your site had been available way back when. Of course, you would’ve been in diapers when I started lifting, but still….
Anyway, I don’t want to seem creepy, but I love the way you guys’ clothes fit in the pictures. You must have advice on finding apparel for the guy who has a 32-ish inch waist and 50-ish inch shoulders (if I recall from an article, those are close to your measurements, Shane). I know this isn’t a style blog, but you guys seem to have found some good solutions to what I’m sure becomes a common problem for readers of this site. Dressin’ ain’t easy in a world of north american fatties.
PS no advice needed on cutoffs. They ugly yo (and I hear they get you thrown out of the gym 🙂 )
Hey Balm, glad you dig it! Thanks 🙂
Yep, those are indeed pretty much exactly my measurements!
I’m wearing a large Wings & Horns shirt in the “Who We Are” photo. Jared is wearing a Gitman Bros vintage fit button-down shirt. I’ve also tailored a few shirts, including t-shirts, to get the waist narrower. If I don’t tailor it in I have to tuck it in … otherwise I look like I’m wearing a baby doll dress.
For pants, most straight/slim/skinny pants seem to have an itty bitty butt because they’re made for skinny guys who haven’t much muscle yet. A good brand that doesn’t go too slim in the tush is Levi’s “Made & Crafted”.
These aren’t cheap, but if you’re going to the trouble of finding clothes that fit / tailoring clothes to make them fit, then I find it easiest to buy good quality stuff and just not have a lot of it. The girls I date probably assume I’m a superhero, given that I wear the same outfit on date one, two, three, four, etc.
I hope that helps!
Hey Shane,
First of all I’ve got to say I love your website and what you’re doing. I was training for a while but didn’t start to gain weight at all until I read your fantastic article on diet. However, I have to disagree with your take on bodyweight training. I’ve actually been training exclusively with progressive bodyweight exercises (wanted to avoid the gym if I could!) and have managed to go from 155 to 185lbs since February (I’m an ectomorph, 6’1, and have put on a few pounds of fat at most).
While I probably could have gained more (or faster) by lifting weights, and know that I will plateau at some point, I think that bodyweight training is grossly underestimated. Trust me when I say that going from regular pushups to one-armed pushups (through several different progressions) is going to do more than increase your stabiliser muscle strength! Same goes for one-armed pull up, one-legged squat etc.
Mark
That’s amazing! 30 pounds in just a few months is wildly badass. Really glad we could help! Congratulations, Mark 🙂
I think that many people, weightlifters especially, probably do underestimate it. I mean, we’re the first people to recommend bodyweight training if a gym (or home gym) isn’t an option – something is always a million times better than nothing – and our program even has some bodyweight workouts that we use to build muscle while people are traveling/busy/etc.
On the other hand, I think many of us naturally thin guys grossly overestimate bodyweight training. (I sure did.) We often get people writing to us who are doing bodyweight workouts and wondering why they lost so much muscle while cutting, or why they’re gaining so much fat when bulking.With that said, those people invariably come in far more fit than sedentary people, and have often made a lot of great progress! And I mean, you’ve certainly shown that without a doubt it can be VERY effective!
It sounds like you’re also doing it very cleverly. I mean, I would even call pull-ups heavy weightlifting! You need a piece of equipment for one, and for most people you can build a TON of muscle before you can do more than 15-20 full range of motion chin-ups or pull-ups (dead hang at the bottom, chest to bar at the top)! If you’re also gaining bodyweight while doing it, well, then the weight is getting heavier each week, too!
And you’re right – there are a ton of ways to progress bodyweight lifts. When I can’t make it to the gym I get my 130 pound (female) roommate to sit on my back and I’ll do push-ups. I can hold her in my arms and do front squats. And she can hold her cat if we need an extra few pounds 😉
With a little creativity you can make a bodyweight workout quite effective.
I didn’t mean to say that bodyweight training wouldn’t work on anyone and that it wouldn’t work at all. I think your opinion of it is correct – that it CAN work, and that it can even work quite well … but by lifting weights you can build even more muscle, build it even more consistently, and better avoid plateaus.
Thanks for the kind words,man, and let us know how you continue to progress! Sounds like you’re kicking some serious ass 😀
Thanks for the reply and the encouragement! I agree with you. Ultimately, I think resistance is resistance, whether it’s coming from weights or your own body. It’s definitely easier to progress by steadily adding weight to lifts instead of doing wacky bodyweight exercises, but I’m enjoying it!
I’ve got a lot of great information from your blog anyway, so if you want me to return the favour you can drop me an mail or something, I can tell you what kind of exercise I did or let you know when I plateau!
Great post (as always), since you guys started talking about clothing, will b2B crew consider making some official shirts?
Hmm. We worked up a design a little while back but never went into production. We’ll probably come out with SOMETHING, but it may not be t-shirts. Stay tuned! 🙂
Layne Norton is not natty, he takes tren.
These stats that you come up with are absolutely absurd, gaining 5 inches on their arms from tricep extensions and curls? That man gained 63 pounds of muscle in 4 weeks etc.
Utter bullshit.
Dr. Norton is very heavily tested, very adamantly natural and he recently (very successfully) defended himself against steroid charges in court. Anything is possible, but if I were to guess I would instead say he’s very clever, very genetically gifted, very hardworking and very consistent … not on drugs. Where is the tren accusation coming from?
I never said anyone gained 5 inches on their arms. I double checked to make sure I didn’t make a typo somewhere, but I don’t see it.
And I recounted a story of a man RECOVERING 63 pounds of lean mass in four weeks after having been starved. I don’t doubt that it’s true, but I could very well be wrong!
“I never said anyone gained 5 inches on their arms. I double checked to make sure I didn’t make a typo somewhere, but I don’t see it.”
You did say exactly that, right here:
“A few gifted participants were able to add 5.3 inches to their arms.”
Ahhh, from the results of the genetics study. You’re right, Matt. And I’m clearly a moron. I don’t know how I forgot about that. I’m sorry.
To add to my response to Mike, then: those are the results found in a peer-reviewed study. As far as I can tell, it’s a credible study from reputable researchers, too. Are those outlier results, though? Absolutely. That’s the entire point.
hey Shane,
great article! i was wondering if you have heard of anthony mychal–he used to be a “skinny fat” ectomorph but worked to get an awesome body (what he calls the x-physique). the one thing he encourages is tricking, which is basically a blend of kicks, flips and twists all put together to look cool. what are your thoughts on anthony and his website? (anthonymychal.com) can information for skinny fats apply to regular ectomorphs as well?
thanks for your awesome articles!
I’ve spoken to Anthony Mychal a few times! He seems like a great guy 🙂
I think he’ll be the first person to tell you that things are a little different depending on your body type and goals. He mentioned us in one article where he wrote about that, saying that our approach is great for skinny dudes trying to build muscle (get bigger and stronger), whereas his approach is targeted at skinny-fat guys trying to improve their body composition.
I’m a pretty classic (and extreme) ectomorph, but we get lots of skinny-fat guys coming into Bony to Beastly. He’s not wrong that we do indeed need to take a different approach there, although it depends on WHY they’re skinny-fat. Some skinny-fat guys don’t do any heavy lifting, don’t eat very well, eat a liiittle too much … and wind up gaining mostly fat when in a calorie surplus. If you don’t have rad genetics, you can wind up gaining a poor ratio of fat to muscle. Some skinny-fat guys don’t have much insulin sensitivity in their muscle cells (which good weightlifting would help address). Some might have lower levels of testosterone (which might at least in part be due to poor exercise or nutrition habits). Some might have naturally higher numbers of fat cells, which makes fat storage easier when eating in a calorie surplus. Tons of potential reasons, so each case is a little different. With great training your typical skinny-fat guy is able to build muscle at a slower pace if he wants to keep it lean … but on the bright side sometimes he’ll be able to lose fat simultaneously. (This is why he says he doesn’t bulk or cut – presumably he focuses instead on body recomposition.)
Similarly, there are lots of different reasons that a guy can end up skinny. Some guys have smaller appetites, some guys have faster metabolisms, some guys have smaller stomach capacities, some guys don’t eat when stressed, etc. I’m a textbook example of all of those things. (More on that here.) And that’s just the nutrition side of things! With great training and nutrition though a typical skinny guy is often able to leanly build up muscle at a pretty damn rapid pace, as you can see in all our transformation shots, both ours and our members’. A lot of us just alternate between maintenance and bulking. If we bulk leanly, after all, we may never need to cut ever. (Especially since in maintenance mode we often wind up getting leaner anyway.)
To highlight one difference, Anthony Michal says he can take in enough calories eating just one meal per day. That’s a physical impossibility for most ectomorphs. Our stomachs couldn’t handle enough food, our metabolisms are too high, and besides, limiting the number of meals that you eat is a trick designed to REDUCE overall calorie consumption.
So sometimes the skinny / skinny-fat situations overlap, sometimes they don’t. (That’s one reason why we pride ourselves on our community. We can handle each situation on a person-by-person basis.)
With all of this said, an evidence-based approach to things is still the best. In both cases you’d want to be eating a diet that encourages muscle growth while doing a form of exercise that encourages muscle growth. (Calorie intake may differ, since a skinny guy would want to get bigger, whereas a skinny-fat guy may want to get smaller in order to lose fat.)
I suspect the tricking is designed to burn calories? Probably not very helpful for an ectomorph trying to leanly build muscle … especially if you’re the kind of ectomorph that I am, where it’s already a struggle to eat enough when bulking. Might be helpful for a skinny-fat guy trying to burn fat / control their appetite / etc! Combined with lifting that could indeed help!
(I should also point out to anyone else reading this that Anthony Mychal lifts heavy free weights to build his muscle. I imagine the tricking is a great way to ENJOY the muscle and strength that he builds – and perhaps free up some extra calories so that he can eat some more food – but I don’t think he would rely on it to actually build muscle.)
Does that help?
And no problem – glad you dig our articles, ER!
Wow–I wasn’t expecting such an info-filled reply! That’s what I love about you guys, you’re so eager to help and all of your responses to comments are really supportive, which helps a lot!
Based off of his website, Anthony’s reason for tricking is to put the muscle gained to use. His way of putting it is something along the lines of “there’s no point in getting a lean, athletic musculature if you can’t do anything athletic,” so you’re right, it is a way to apply his muscle and it just looks pretty cool. I agree that if you’re pretty muscular, why not show off your strength in something like tricking? I dunno what you personally think about that, to me it just seems neat.
I have one more question– since going to a gym isn’t really an option for me, I’ve decided to invest in a bench/squat rack. Do you know of anything that costs between $200-250? I’m not looking for anything fancy, just something that can hold a few hundred pounds and do the job correctly.
Thanks again!
No problem, man. It was a really good question!
I think some types of callisthenics seem really cool, and I think that’ll be what I work on slowly outside of the gym now that I’m pretty happy with my size. Doing push-ups with my roommate on my back, shoulder pressing girlfriends, learning to do free-standing handstand push-ups and planches and stuff. If I could hold a girl overhead with one hand I think that’d be pretty badass.
Anyway, learning to do cool stuff with your body is rad indeed. I think I’m just such a nerd that in my free time you’re more likely to find me tinkering with illustrations, doing research or writing music, not outside being a badass doing flips. But now that I’ve got all this energy, I do indeed need outlets for it 🙂
My main goals these days though are to continue improving my big three lifts. Right now I’m working on form and mostly just maintaining strength, but I hope to get that rock solid and then work on moving those numbers up again!
For your rack – I’d check to see what you can find secondhand! If your budget is small, oftentimes it’s best to get something high quality secondhand instead of something brand new that’s cheap. Just my two cents.
Hey, dope article, had been expecting it for a long time but it was worth the wait 🙂
quick question about volume, when you speak about doing BB style routines with higher rep ranges, doesn’t it mean that all-in-all the total tonnage must go up ? if I do 5×5@190lb (total tonnage 4750lbs) easily,with tucked-in elbows and kind of an arched back, shall I prefer doing something like 3×10@160lb bodybuilding style to begin with (total 4800lb)?
seems counter intuitive if we think about 1RM% and hypertrophy (i.e too light?)
I actually do the “texas method” with some added volume with 2 drop sets at the end of the 5×5, and dips, chin ups, or sometimes dips+chin ups supersets at the end of each workout, pretty good at building size and strength mixing it up like you write it at the end, but I still find the 5×5 part too hard on my sh*tty fragile joints.
Even when you consider yourself an intermediate lifter after 2 years of dedication, good nutrition, there’s still so much work to do, gotta love it.
That’s a tricky question and up until recently we really would have had no idea. A recent study comparing bodybuilding style training with powerlifting style training kind of sheds some light on it though. It looks like there might be a certain mechanical tension threshold where, once crossed, it stops being beneficial. That could (maybe) mean that even though the lighter bodybuilding routine wouldn’t be as heavy, you’d still get optimal growth with less stress on your joints (and have more recovery ability to use elsewhere). That’s pretty helpful for us skinny guys, as our ectomorph bone structures aren’t always the sturdiest, especially when we’re relatively new to this stuff. The study used 7 sets x 3RM compared with 3 sets x10RM, but I imagine the results would be similar to 5×5 vs 3×10 using a weight you’re comfortable with.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24714538
(Note that in this study the total tonnage would have been MUCH higher in the powerlifting group.)
As for what form you’d use … that’s a totally different question. A bodybuilder bench press and a powerlifting bench press have very different goals. We favour more of a powerlifting bench press, but we also use lots of other accessory lifts (and dumbbell bench presses) to get the pecs growing. I wouldn’t rely on just a powerlifting style bench to grow a great chest unless you’ve got a really dominant chest when pressing. (My pecs are so dominant that I managed to get away with it – I built my chest using pretty much exclusively with heavy powerlifting style barbel bench presses – but most guys probably couldn’t. Jared needs to build his chest a much different way.)
Congrats on all the strength you’ve built already. Good luck with year #3!
Wow, awesome answer, that study is nuts for us. Will certainly stop pushing forward with heavier 5×5 @ bench and squat, and try to do longer series+ some more accessory lift to end my sessions.
Thanks a lot !
Hope it goes well, Ben! 🙂
Hey, great article!
I don’t understand though how this translates to sets and exercises per muscle group
So you said 16 sets weekly is the best thing to train a muscle group, do you follow this number? If so how do you get to it with 3 full-body workout a week?
1 exercise per muscle group and 5 sets per exercise? Or 2 exercises per muscle group and 3 sets per exercise?
Overall, I thought on a full-body you only need 1 exercise per muscle group otherwise there would be too much stuff to do. But it seems like 2 exercises per muscle group are the minimum to get an adequate volume? Do you think 1 compound exercise and 1 accessory exercise for each muscle group is a good balance on a full-body?
Hey Jared, there are lots of ways to structure a workout program! It depends on how heavy you’re going, how close to failure you’re going, how experienced you are, etc. You’d probably spend some months working a particular muscle group with a high volume like 16 / group, and other times working it a little less.
We follow this number sometimes. It depends on the goal of the phase. Sometimes it will be lower and heavier, to emphasize strength, and sometimes it will be temporarily even higher!
On the first day of week in the first phase of our program, for example, we have three exercises that hit the chest (for a total of 7-10 sets depending on the week), but on the second workout of the week we only have one chest exercise (3-4 sets). Nothing says you need to have an equal volume on each muscle group each workout. Each day will have a certain emphasis.
That’s why triple split workouts are a valid alternative. While I don’t feel (and I don’t think the research supports) that they’re optimal, you can very easily put 4-5 exercises in a single day that target a single muscle group and get your weekly volume optimized that way!
One main exercise and one accessory lift is probably good, yep! The biceps study we talk about above used just chin-ups and curls and saw good results! Better results than just chin-ups, but just chin-ups also worked.
Shane, thanks for your thoughtful answer!
You said you don’t need to have an equal volume on each muscle group each workout but you do need to have an equal volume on each muscle group at the end of the week, right?
I mean the day you just do 1 exercise for chest you must compensate with 3 exercises for back or legs, is that right? Otherwise I think one muscle group could develop more than another and create an unbalanced physique.
I guess this is different thought for small muscles like arms and shoulders and they need would need an equal low volume at each workout. Am I wrong?
No problem, man 🙂
That depends on your goals! Sometimes people need to pull (i.e. train their back) with twice as much volume as they push (i.e. train their chest) in order to fix imbalances. I mean, not everyone starts of balanced, so sometimes adjusting volume makes a lot of sense. Different people have different muscle-building / strength / aesthetics goals as well.
Your arms and shoulders will get plenty of stimulation with the big compound lifts, so if anything, especially if you’re adding in arm isolation lifts, they’ll often get a very HIGH volume. If you’re talking about accessory lifts though, then yeah, they wouldn’t need much since they’re already getting a lot of work elsewhere.
Hi Shaun, VJ from India here, a few questions.
About 10 days I started working out an hour a day. After 10 days of regular weights, I went from 59 kg to around 61.5/61.7. But my arms, chest and even shoulders look different now :). My arms are now visibly slightly bigger, esp forearms and biceps. My shirt is filling up. But at the same time, I am 6ft 1 in height and had a weight of 132 pounds. My chest and stomach was absolutely fatless. :D. I mean there was NO excess fat. Not even skinny fat. My friends were like I is a bikini model. Nothing, no man breasts. Now I have gained some fat on my belly and my pecs have started emerging. How can I keep my fat to low levels? My gym instructor here claims that some fat gain when you do regular weight training is inevitable, and that you cannot avoid IF your are underweight. He said if you are underweight by 10-20 pounds, fat gain is inevitable. How can I continue gaining muscle and strength while keeping body fat as low as possible? Or burn off the body fat on my tummy? By tummy, I dont mean I have a paunch. Just that there are some rolls of fat I want to get rid of.
2. Is it possible to get stronger and more muscular while keeping your weight low? In other words, can you be a very strong and muscular 65-66 kg as opposed to a weak 61, but at the same time not gain much weight? If so how do you achieve that? I am talking of gaining muscle and strength without much weight gain? IF that is my objective. Both in terms of diet and weight gain-what tips do you have?
3. Though muscle gaining is a good thing and being healthy is great, isn’t it all neccessary to be happy with us the way we are? I feel we should also try to be happy with our bodies as they are, and not to let our physiques affect our chances of happiness in life in general. I mean, we shouldn’t say that we must be happy ONLY when we become strong but instead never let our physiques or our complexes about our physiques ever limit us from having fun in the fear that only if we become stronger, we can have fun or enjoy life. Should we not happy and cool with what we are too, while getting stronger? Your site is a great place, but I just felt that once in a while, you must remind people being fat or very thin is not a curse of any kind, and that it need not stop you from anything in your life.
4. As I am 6ft 1 and 61.7 kg, measured today :D, what would be a healthy weight for me?
Hi Vj
I wanted to answer on your point 3, if you don’t mind.
I think happiness, in this life, is 90% about feeling good in your body.
You know those days when you wake up and feel bloated, tired, sore? Those days you don’t feel okay whenever you go. You could have a beautiful house, be on an esotic place on vacation, having a beutiful family, going on trip to see beautiful things but you won’t feel happy or okay no matter what situation. On the other hand when you wake up feeling strong, fit, full of energy you can sit on a grassland all alone the whole day and you will feel happy and fulfilled anyway. That’s how feeling good in your own body is important.
Some skinny people are too weak, sore, tired to feel really happy. They have far less opportunities they could have had because of this. Same for overweight and obese people.
Hey VJ, I wouldn’t say that building muscle means that you need to gain fat, although it depends on your priorities and how you approach it. If you’re determined to build muscle as rapidly as possible to makes sense to overshoot your calorie goals, not undershoot them. When you notice that you’re gaining fat you scale back the calories until the gains are lean. If you wanted to emphasize staying as lean as possible you’d just do the opposite – you’d gradually increase your calories until your weight starts moving up slowly and leanly.
Worst case scenario though you accidentally gain a bit of fat and then you spend a couple/few weeks burning it off. So long as you don’t let your fat gain get out of control it’s very easy to get rid of … so I don’t think it’s anything really to be scared of. As soon as you notice that you’re gaining some though I’d say it’s time to adjust what you’re doing!
Obviously your training and nutrition can affect the amount of muscle you can build, of course. The better your weightlifting program the more insulin sensitive your muscle cells will be and the more inclined to build muscle your body will be. The same is true with nutrition – you need to get your nutrition handled if you want to keep your gains as lean as possible. The affects of both of these things are huuuge.
With a good weightlifting and nutrition program though … it’s often just a matter of adjusting calories 🙂
And of course you should be happy with yourself the way you are now! You make a very good point. It’s much more enjoyable to lift weights, be active, eat well, etc when you love your body and want to treat it well. Mind you, when I first started this stuff I was quite unsatisfied with my skinny body and pretty desperate to build muscle / gain weight. Sometimes being satisfied with where you are now is easier said than done. I encourage you to work towards both goals though! Improve your health/strength/physique AND improve your confidence/satisfaction. Oftentimes they work well when done together, too.
For your last question I’d ask your doctor. That would depend on a variety of things. I’m 6’2, started at 125-130, and feel/look my healthiest between 180-190. That’s just me though!
I hope that helps!
Hi Shaun thanks for the answer, if I get you correctly:
Currently I am doing about an hour of weights+cardio every day six days of the week. I also do light cardio on the seventh day MAINLY to ensure that exercise becomes a habit for me. 🙂 Now, my weight is around 61.3, up from 59 11 days ago. but I want to ensure that the gains are mostly lean muscle and NOT fat. If I am to do this, should I continue with my regular exercise and simply reduce my diet or reduce what I eat in general? Should I eat more protein and less carbs and fats? What sort of diet should you eat if you want to keep the fat to as low as possible while building your physique? Or should you just generally eat less, esp for lunch and dinner? How do you balance your body’s need for extra nutrition given your exercise versus the desire to keep the fat levels to as low as possible?
Second, currently I am doing my workout before breakfast on an empty stomach. Is this conducive to fat gain or muscle gain? Should I eat before my workout? Or is it fine the way it is? Is it ok to workout on an empty stomach or just drink/lemon juice etc and then work out?
Third, to give a perspective I am around 6ft 0 (not 1), weight 132 and have a waist of 32-33 inches. I am 26 years old, dont smoke or drink.
Hehe I could write a dozen pages to answer just one of those questions! And it seems like you have a lot. I would find a program to follow that will give you a clear idea of how all this stuff works, and if you really like to master every single variable, perhaps a program that includes support/coaching. I’d recommend ours, of course, but there are others, too. With a good understanding of the muscle-building fundamentals it will all make sense.
If you don’t want to buy a program, we’ll be coming out with a ton of new articles on the blog and hopefully we can answer a lot of those questions in some depth 🙂
Hey Shane!
What’s the optimal number of sets per week per large and small musclegroups if you do both strength and bodybuilding rep ranges?
How much rest days are needed in this case? 5 would be enough?
The blog is amazing and very informative, keep up the good work! Can’t wait for the new articles!
Hey Ben, thanks!
That depends on your goals, intensity, strength, rep ranges, heaviness of the lifts, etc. Probably a maximum of 16 total as a general rule if building muscle size, aka hypertrophy, is your goal (this would vary depending on the muscle group and emphasis of your program), although I’d also recommend periodizing things. You’d want about half that if strength were your goal, and alternating between strength and hypertrophy will often lead to the best gains in both.
How many rest days? We use just one rest day haha, so yes, five would be enough! Again, that depends on many other factors, notably intensity (aka how close to failure you’re training).
I hope that helps!
This article has me completely puzzled.
I always thought the consensus was: If you have a skinny bone structure / are a hardgainer / genetically disadvantaged, then the bodybuilding routines with lots of sets and lots of reps will do nothing for you.
I can see the point in adding one or two isolation exercises with a higher rep range. But are you actually recommending high volume for the big compound lifts? I think we skinny guys are really disadvantaged when it comes to recovery. So if I wanted to increase my reps & sets, I’d have to use considerably lighter weight … it just doesn’t feel right 😀
Same here, i thought lifting for strength was the best option for ectos. What if we alternate between bodybuilding and powerlifting style workouts every week, would it be good or we would sacrifice mass?
There are different ways to periodize a program and get the best of both worlds, but I’ve never heard of alternating week by week like that. I imagine you’d have better luck doing both every week … but I can’t say for sure! I’m not sure there’s a definitive answer to that question (yet).
We’re saying that the research shows that there’s a certain optimal volume that most people respond best to. In the squat study that we used as an example above, only the low volume group had participants who didn’t respond at all to the training. It was the LOW volume training that the hardgainers didn’t respond well to.
Obviously some people need to adjust the volume to suit them on an individual level, but oftentimes with guys who are genetically disadvantaged you’d want more, not less.
And we aren’t recommending “high” volume per say, we’re recommending “optimal” volume. If the volume is too low OR too high results will suffer. As with most things in life, volume is an inverse U curve – the best results are seen in the middle. The challenging part is figuring out where that optimal middle zone is!
I have a follow-up question/comment. 😀
I am completely open-minded, but I’m not convinced just yet. For the sake of simplicity, let’s just focus on the optimal volume of heavy compound lifts (squats or deadlifts). You cite one meta-analysis and 7 studies to prove your point that high volume is better while low volume is ineffective. Unfortunately, I only have access to the abstracts, so my judgement is purely based on those.
– I cannot see what kinds of exercises the meta-analysis is looking at, so I’ll just consider the other studies.
– One of the studies is only looking at older adults aged 65 to 78, and another one is only looking at biceps curls.
– Of the remaining 5 studies, two come to the conclusion that higher volume is better for leg exercises when it comes to strength and muscle mass … while three come to the conclusion that there are no differences between low and high volume training (again, only for the leg exercise!).
So I’ll say the evidence is not quite so clear. My hardgainer-biased opinion would be: In dubio pro low volume 😀 … (placing my bets on long-term benefits when it comes to recovery). Then again, I realize “volume” is a loaded term and the whole situation is probably overdetermined by too many variables (reps, sets, load, weekly workouts). Does that make any sense?
Interested in hearing your take on this!
Hey MJ, it’s really the meta-analysis that you want to look at, since that’s the analysis that takes into account ALL of the studies. I tried to include potentially relevant studies that weren’t included in the meta-analysis as well, but it’s the meta-analysis that will draw the most accurate conclusion.
I’m also not claiming that lower volume is ineffective, just LESS effective.
Also keep in mind that if you’re reading the abstracts you’re missing out on a lot of the relevant details. For example,if you look further down in the post you’ll see the study finding “no statistically significant differences” between chin-ups and chin-ups + bicep curls (I think there were bench presses and triceps extensions too). Even though the study failed to find a statistically significant difference you can see that the chins+curls produced FAR better results. It’s just that the study was short and the sample size was small. Over longer time periods (more than 8-12 weeks) this can lead to huge differences in results.
This is common in weightlifting studies, so you really need to go further than just the abstracts. (And you of course always need to be mindful of drawing “conclusions” based on statistically insignificant studies as well!)
Volume currently seems to be one the factors most associated with growth, so if it were me I would err on the side of doing what the meta-analysis suggests … but obviously even doing a lower volume plan may indeed produce good results if enough of your other factors are optimized! (Intensity, nutrition, exercise selection, form, etc.)
Hello 🙂
I have a question about busy workput schedule. I was wondering if your e book was also for busy people who can only work let us say 3 to 4 times a week only. If not can you help me out with a few questions?
First of all I believe I can only do each muscle group once a week because of my busy schedule. Here is a typical workout routine for my busy schedule –
Ex) Monday – Chest/Triceps (includes bench press)
Wednesday – Legs/Shoulder (includes squats)
Friday – Back/Bicep (includes deadlifts)
As you can see here, I have pretty much all the compound lifts but I only have once a week.for each muscle.group. Would this be problem in terms of growth RATE? Any suggestions would be fantastic.Oh and one last thing, I split the three so I can maximize my busy schedule and resting times as well. Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!! Buying this book if it matches my schedule needs
You might be able to improve the rate that you can build muscle by turning those into full body workouts. Most studies show that a higher training frequency is optimal for muscle growth, so with a triple split like yours you’d split each workout into two. Chest on Monday, legs on Tuesday, back on Wednesday, chest on Thursday, legs on Friday, back on Saturday, rest on Sunday. For guys who like to do short workouts every day that works well.
If you wanted to train four days a week then upper, lower, rest, upper, lower, rest, rest works well.
With three days per week I’d do what we do – three full body workouts. With smart exercise selection that’s more than enough to build muscle as effectively/efficiently as possible.
All options are equally effective, since each muscle group is being hit 2-3 times per week, which is optimal. It’s a matter of preference. If time is a factor, however, the most efficient option is to train three times per week.
Does that help / make sense?
And I hope you decide to join us, man – I think you’d dig it!
Thanks for the reply! I can tell your replies are so time consuming 🙁
Anyways! I guess I get what you’re saying, somewhat. So are you implying that doing full body workouts on a three day split routine is the best possible way (for me) since you are hitting a lot of muscle groups; which in return, will help grow muscle in the most efficient way? If doing, per se, a 3 day full body workout, what would one routine look like? I’ve looked online and I saw that full body workout recommends, like, doing squats, bench presses, shoulders, leg curls, ETC. on the same day – of course switching off a few exercises for a more focus on certain muscle groups. But more or less, I get what you’re saying about full body exercises in terms of compound lifts, but the main question is – what about the sub muscle groups such AS the triceps, biceps, and etc.? Will those just come naturally through good form of other compound exercises?
And also, I will be able to workout a lot during the summer. With your recommendation of higher training frequency, just doing Chest on Monday, legs on Tuesday, etc., etc., are you saying this is the BEST of the BEST? And is my workout routine that I mentioned bad, in any way? 🙁 THANKS so much.
I reworded my first response to make it a little clearer and more detailed 🙂
I meant to say that there are many ways to properly structure your weightlifting workouts. There’s a certain optimal volume and frequency per muscle group, but that doesn’t mean you can’t make different routines out of that information.
If you were training 4 times per week you could do an upper/lower split to hit each muscle group twice per week. If you were training 6 times per week you could do a triple split to hit each muscle group twice. If you’re training just three times per week though you’d probably want to do full body workouts so that your training frequency is still optimal (2-3 times per week is optimal). ALL of these options are the best of the best as far as results go. Three times per week is the best of the best as far as EFFICIENCY goes, since you’re training less and still building maximal amounts of muscle.
You will probably see the best growth if you include some accessory lifts. We include accessory lifts in our full body workouts. (Check out the chin-ups/curl study in the article.)
Your routine isn’t bad, it’s just not entirely optimal. The most important thing is that you lift though, not that every factor is totally 100% optimized. You’ll still get great results so long as you actually do it 🙂
Hey, Shane. I have a question for you. I’ve been training for about three weeks and I’m already experiencing a steady gain in weight. About 5 kg, to be precise. I’m eating a lot, sleeping a lot and training 3 times a week. I’ve been doing mostly heavy lifting, with a bit of cardio as well. My legs grew, my arms grew and to my horror, so is my lower tummy!! FYI, I don’t do any sort of sit-ups or core crunching (not sure if this is acceptable, please let me know if it’s not!!). It seems like my lower abdominal region is bulging (not by much but it is noticeable) and felt firm.
Now it’s only three weeks since I started this new lifestyle and I shouldn’t really worry a lot but this is bothering me. I did some research and I thought I was getting hernia!! It could due to heavylifting according to some websites. I want to know if you experience anything like this when you first started your incredible journey to 185 pounds!!
Is this ‘bulge’ a normal thing or am I not paying attention to my abdomen? Currently, I’m really focused on my arms, back and legs as a start.
Shane, I have had exactly the same experience in the last 4 weeks as Edmund! My weight is up 4 kg in almost 4 weeks. Here too my lower tummy has actually grown a bit. But thanks to pull ups, it has also become firmer-not a lot-but perceptibly so. It has kind of spilled out.
One point: when I do cardio, I notice that my feet, especially just above my ankles pains when I run on the treadmill but as soon as I stop, within minutes it vanishes. In day to day course it doesn’t pain. But it does pain when I jog. Any idea what could be the cause?
I wonder if this could also be caused by sitting too long or sitting with a bad posture or maybe both. I do slouch once in a while sitting in front of the PC, during class lectures and tutorials (which could last hours and hours!!). Sitting for too long may not be so easily avoidable because I’m a student but I will try my best to maintain my posture (although I should do it anyways whether or not this is the cause!!).
Do you sit like a ‘good girl’ all the time, Shane? Do you even sit longer than 10 minutes??!!! I t could be one of the factors as well.
In the end, I’m very frustrated with this ‘bulge’ and I want it gone!! Please tell what I could be doing wrong and how I could possibly fix it!! Thanks!
Sounds like you’re gaining weight more quickly than your body is building muscle, so some of the surplus calories are spilling over into fat gains. The lower stomach is where men tend to store fat the most readily, so noticing the first signs there is very normal.
It’s good that you’ve noticed. You can trim back the calories and go for a slower rate of weight gain before you accumulate too much fat 🙂
Thanks for the reply! Might want to cut back a little on my nutrition if that’s the case. But if I don’t, will sit-ups or core workouts solve the problem like elevated leg crunching?
Core workouts will just make the muscles in your core bigger and stronger, in turn making your waist bigger.
It may help with your posture though, depending on how you do it. However, you’ll probably have better luck improving your posture with core stability exercises (like planks) rather than core flexion exercises (like crunches).
what’s up Shane,
I train my back twice for every time I train my chest, as you recommended in your ectomorph aesthetics article. I have a question about volume and frequency though. I have two workouts, one has rows for my back and the other has heavy weighted pull ups. Do you think I could substitute the rows for weighted chin ups (not pull ups) an still see muscle gain? or is it better to stick with the rows? I’m doing about 3 sets of 8 reps for each.
thanks man
Better to stick with the rows! Rows are a horizontal pull, whereas pull-ups are a vertical pull. It’s best to have both, just like it’s best to have some variation of both bench presses (horizontal press) and overhead presses (vertical press).
I’d replace the pull-ups with the chin-ups – you’ll hit your lats just as well and also get some other muscle groups (like your biceps) going a little better.
thanks! I have another question about training– do you guys at B2B recommend a 3 day split, for example, pressing movements/pulling movements/legs? or two different workout that each have different exercises for each body part? that’s what I’m doing right now so I can hit each body part twice a week.
thanks man!
We do three full body workouts per week, as most studies indicate that a frequency of 3x per week per muscle group is optimal for most situations, and we program the volume per workout / per muscle group accordingly.
But what you’re describing is also fine.
Hi,
Is this any good? (i dont normally trust bb.com but this one looks nice)
At a glance it looks good, yeah 🙂
Hi, Shane. I’ve been working out quite a lot and eating well. So far, my body is showing progress (in terms of weight) and I am gaining muscles here and there. But the one part about the body that isn’t showing progress is my chest. It still looks kinda flat-ish and I’m wondering if I’ll ever build a nice chest. Sometimes I wonder if there’s actually muscles there because initially, I could almost see the rib bones.
Why is the chest such a difficult part to build? I’ve been doing my fair share of bench presses but it only seems to be helping my back and arms. I don’t even know what to do next. Help?
Barbell bench press? That won’t grow the pecs of many people, and us long and lanky-limbed ectomorphs often struggle with that the most.
Pec genetics certainly play a role in how your pecs will be shaped when fully developed, but as far as SIZE goes you should be able to have a fair amount of control over making them larger.
First of all, you may benefit more from learning how do rock a really mean dumbbell bench press instead of barbell bench press. Second of all you’ll want to incorporate some assistance lifts for your pecs, since you may be lifting primarily with your arms and shoulders instead of your chest. Flys usually work well.
For learning how to use your pecs when doing compound presses, we often have a lot of success by teaching guys how to do great push-ups, and then loading those push-ups heavier and heavier. It translates pretty well into a good barbell bench press a lot of the time. Push-ups are great too, so you’ll probably like what they do for your posture, core, triceps, shoulders, pecs, etc. If you aren’t doing ’em, I’d add them in!
(It’s a little strange that your back is growing with your bench press, but not totally abnormal. With more of a powerlifting bench press style your lats can play a bigger role. Your upper mid back is used isometrically too, to help maintain a good lifting platform to push from.)
Thanks for the tips! I do struggle with push ups sometimes but I got the form right and I was able to maintain it so yeah, I would definitely pay more attention to it from now on.. You the man!!
Hey man, I’m 130 pounds ,18 years old, and I train in basketball and muay Thai, I consider Myself to be fairly fit , I can do 50 push ups easily, but I want to gain around 40 pounds this year, it sounds very difficult especially cause I do insane cardio, Im leaving muay Thai and focussing on basketball. and really being 130 pound point guard, well I get bullied alot, the coach says I need to gain muscle fast,I’m getting desperate. What do you recommend.
Hehe well, and admittedly I’m biased here, I recommend a program like ours! A good weightlifting and nutrition plan designed to build as much muscle mass as possible onto a naturally skinny frame is exactly what you need.
Our stuff translates pretty well into athletics, too. That’s a big passion of Marco’s, so you should be coming out with better mobility and strength, too 🙂
With that said, 40 pounds is a lot to gain in a year! We see it happen all the time, and some of our members are able to do it … but it’s no walk in the park!
I understand all that, but do you really believe I can gain around 40 pounds in one year even though I’m burning so many calories. I mean on an average day I spend around 1 hour in intense basketball training. And then go to this club where I play around 2-3 hours of more basketball, and usually I don’t stop there. And I do that at least 3 days a week,
My point is it even possible. Please note that my nutrition is basically terrible . I eat very little , and drink tons of energy drinks,
I did lift some weights, but only gained 10 pounds in the last 2 years, and that was probably from growing
It is TOTALLY possible.. If you’re not getting results, you are doing it wrong. I gained 20 pounds in just a month of eating, sleeping and good ol’weightlifting. I’m not joking. 20 POUNDS in ONE MONTH, not one year.
If you are really serious about gaining weight, you may have make some sacrifices (talking about your basketball) and be super disciplined. I currently weigh 142 pounds and I’m 6’2. I’m more confident now than ever and this is just the beginning!! If I can do it, so can you (Asian here).
What I did was to train 3 days a week (no excuse) for no less than an hour. It usually involves a lot of lifting with some cardio to make sure you don’t end up skinny fat (worse than being skinny). My cardio don’t usually take more than 10-12 minutes per session. I mean, I’ve eaten a lot before and after training. Why do serious cardio for 2-3 hours to burn the very thing that’s gonna build your muscles?? I know you love your basketball but you have to set your priorities straight, you want to play or you want to build muscles? In your case, you can’t really do both. But sure, you can still play during rest days but be moderate.
You have to eat a lot. Sleep a lot. Train 3 days a week. Do some basketball. Simple.
To make it even simpler, join the Beastly program. Frankly, I don’t have the money to afford the program but I’m making progress and there’s nothing to complain about. You can even read some of the articles here to help you along the way. I wish you luck!
Hey Shane, Marco and Jared,
I’m 16 years old (in a month) and from Germany.
I wanna know, if it would be wise to do this training, because I’m still growing. My second problem is, that I don’t have the time to go to a gym.
So, should I still buy the program?
Hope you guys can help me
Hey Jamin,
For sure! I remember hearing rumours back when I was younger that lifting heavy weights would stunt growth and stuff, but those were just old wives’ tales. I’m not sure what rumours are circulating these days, but most research actually shows that it’s safer than most sports (like soccer) and offers the high intensity heavy lifting causes wicked brain adaptations in young guys. Marco started at your age, and I wish I had too. By the time I started he’d already gained 63 pounds!
Here’s a good article on the New York Times blog if you want to read up on it a little more. They recommend starting as early as 7!
You should definitely get permission from your parents though. Even though it’s quite safe comparatively, that doesn’t mean there aren’t any risks at all.
And if you don’t want to go to the gym check this article out.
We do have a bodyweight workout, but you’d rather quickly grow too strong for it and need some heavier things.
Are you guys aware of hypertrophy specific training?
Is this more or less what you program dictates; gradually decreasing volume with gradually increasing intensity – working out at sub-maximal loads, hitting a peak in each volume range every 2 weeks (so in this case, they go from 15×1 – 10 x 2 – 5 x 3 – though it can be taken to the extremes, starting at 20 reps)…
Without asking you to give everything away, some idea about the overall structure of your training program would be appreciated. I think the program above is the way forward for me, but i’m curious to understand the differences you might have come up with.
I’m at the extreme end of ecto, short muscle bellies, lanky frame, poor appetite under stress – many of the things you talk about. I appear to have an intolerance for low volume training over a medium – long period of time: I’ve trained heavy (5×5, Starting S routines and others farily simm, low volume strength training essentially) and did well over a period of 3 months. However, I eventually burnt out psychologically; the constant cramming of food and load on my joints resulted in general bloat, constant tiredness and pain/injury that eventually causes the mind to give up – back we go to ectomorph. I wonder if you know what i mean – whilst the effect on my body was positive, it wasn’t sustainable. So, what i’m looking for is something that i can keep to long term – something that makes the mind feel good too!
It’s a tricky process but what you guys have apparently taught me is that there are certain adaptations to be made that i had not considered (tricking the appetite with the right food and inhibiting that fairly understandable desire to lift HEAVY all the damn time).
Hey MJB,
I wasn’t aware of it, but I’m aware of the principles they’re describing. There are some similarities between our program and theirs, although there are also a lot of differences. We both use compound lifts and full body workouts though with a similar frequency, we both pay a lot of attention to volume and intensity, we both focus on getting progressively stronger, we both have ways of periodizing and progressing our training, etc. We gradually increase volume and have scheduled periods of deload/recovery. Our volume is (usually) higher overall as well, as research shows this to be more conducive to muscle growth. I’m not impressed with the research being done into eccentric-only training either.
Eccentric emphasis training makes sense theoretically as it recruits more fast twitch fibres and places them under greater mechanical tension (study, study) and it works FAR better than training emphasizing just the concentric … but in practice doesn’t seem to work as well as more traditional tempos where both are emphasized (study). This is an interesting area of research though.
Mm, that’s a common issue with sustained powerlifting style training. The wear and tear on joints accumulates. You can ease back on the heavy stuff, work in some lighter stuff, recover, and then ease back into the heavy stuff again. (We usually try to schedule those periods so that we’re easing back before people feel too beat up.) You can do interesting stuff like that with your calories, too!
Hehe yeah it’s tough to stay away from the really heavy lifting sometimes. I find it the most fun. Three rep front squats are one of my favourite lifts ever, whereas higher rep squats are a painful nightmare!
Hiya,
It’s been some time since i’ve had to use all this terminology – the HST guys would probably say i’ve done a bad job of it (they would be correct). Anyway, they are also utilizing a period of rest “strategic deconditioning” as they call it, which actually involves no training at all for at least a week! As far as eccentrics (‘negatives’) go – although they are rather interested in it, it’s an optional extra and i gather most people who opt for the routine just transition into a 2 week period of 5 x 5, thus for the majority HST actually transitions into SST for a little while.
Hey, Shane, I wonder if it’s okay to not workout for a week or more. I’ve made good progress and I worry this long break will slow it down or bring me back to square one. I usually workout on Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays. But there was one week where I only did Thursday and Friday and didn’t workout till the next Saturday. Today it’s Tuesday and I’ll be hitting the gym again on Thursday as usual. In short, I didn’t workout for 7 days until Saturday and another 4 days till this coming Thursday.
Is this not a good thing to do? I have my reasons though (studies, exams) for skipping and gosh, it felt awful.. It’s more like guilt for not doing it and I hate it.
Just how long does it take for an ectomorph to start losing his gains if he does not workout? And what can I do about it? I’m trying my best to make time for workouts but sometimes life takes over and you can’t do nothing about it..
Hey Red, it would take quite a while to lose your gains. Generally you lose them when you combine detraining with shoddy nutrition and weight loss. If you’ve got a good lifestyle as far as nutrition goes then taking a week (or three) off from the gym should be just fine.
The tricky thing is that oftentimes when we’re busy (or sick or on vacation) these things do tend to happen all at once, and we do lose some muscle. It comes back relatively rapidly though when you get back into the swing of things. Muscle memory is a real thing. The nuclei you develop in your muscles cells will stick around, and this will make it easy to rebuild lost muscle. So don’t stress too much.
If you’re busy with studies and exams though I’d encourage you to keep training! Training should positively affect your energy levels, mental focus/clarity and willpower. That’s the last time I’d be cutting out training, although you may want to reduce the length, volume and intensity of it to free up some time and energy!
Generally it takes at least 2 weeks to start losing your muscle gains, you can expedite this by not providing your body with enough protein, and you can add fat over top of your muscle when your caloric intake shoots through the roof on your “off weeks”
And to add to Shane’s advice about not giving up training during studies/exam, there’s studies that show that exercising help decreases stress.
I’m in the working world now and eventhough there have been days whereby I’d be too tired or stressed out I’d still make an effort to hit the gym to sweat it all out. Personally it helped a lot and I’d be able to sleep thru the night and start fresh again the next day.
I couldn’t agree more 🙂
Hi Shane,
Thanks for answerimg all these questions for us. I have one more 😀 . Since its summer and schools out, i have all the time for working out and eating. Would it be ok to workout 6 times per week (2-3 x week for every body part) or i would be overtrained?
You could train six times per week, yep! Your workouts would either be rather short or made up primarily of smaller isolation exercises though. Keep in mind that the optimal training volume (total number of sets/reps per muscle group per week) for muscle growth is the same whether you’re training six times per week or three times per week. And you’re correct that you’d want to keep the frequency per muscle group at 2-3x per week.
Can I help me , Please ..
Hey Shane quick question I feel you could help me with.
I’m 6’3″ and 200lbs and I have recently put on some size (used to be about 190 since I started working out regularly), but it isn’t completely noticeable. I’m long and lanky and want to put size into my legs, chest, shoulders, forearms, arms and back. What type of workout would you recommend I do in order to get up to 215lbs and look generally bigger and wider in the those areas?
Hey Cole, props on the 10 pounds, man!
You aren’t necessarily doing anything wrong. I find for guys around our height that 12-15 pounds of lean mass seems to be the magic number. That’s when you look at before/after photos and really see some swell progress. If you check out the photos in the sidebar you’ll see that 20-30 pounds of muscle is where things REALLY get crazy. So it may just be that things are going perfectly and you just need to keep pushing onward to 215!
With that said, you’re 6’3 and 200 pounds, so there are a couple more questions worth asking. First, how lean are you? Second, are you starting to hit all kinds of plateaus with your training?
If you’re an ectomorph who’s a lean 200 and gunning for a lean 215 that’s when things start becoming complicated as far as training goes. You really need to work hard to progressively increase muscle strength and work capacity (the amount of sets/reps you can handle), and that can take some cleverness.
For example, for your legs: heavy squats and deadlifts (5 or fewer reps), assistance lifts like romanian deadlifts and goblet squats in a moderate rep range (6-12), then maybe some finishers like leg presses, leg extensions, hamstring curls and calf raises in a slightly higher rep range (12-20). The heavy stuff will make you strong, the moderate and lighter stuff will add size, the wide variety of lifts will result in more balanced and consistent growth.
Then you’d gradually work to lift heavier and heavier, more and more sets, etc. Each week you’d want to lift more pounds than the week before, but not so much that you can’t recover from it.
Does that help / make sense?
Thanks! This helped a lot! And to answer your questions,
1. I am about 140-150lbs of lean mass
2. I am hitting some plateaus, but feel as though I can hit more
Another question, do you feel that full body workouts or split workouts are better and if so, how many days a week? I play basketball too so I get a lot of cardio in
There isn’t enough research right now for me to say confidently which approach is superior, and the best answer at this point is probably “it depends”. However most evidence points to a training frequency of 2-3 weightlifting sessions per muscle group per week, so three full body workouts per week and upper/lower splits (upper, lower, rest, upper, lower, rest, rest) seem to be pretty ideal. Fully body workouts also mean less fatigue per muscle group per workout, which means the training quality / amount lifted tends to be higher per muscle group per week. (If you were doing a “chest” day your chest would fatigue after a couple exercises, making you weaker for the rest of the workout. It would burn and cause a lot of muscle damage, but the quality/heaviness of your lifts would suffer.) This further supports the idea that working more muscle groups per workout is ideal, but admittedly that’s mainly theoretical at this point.
There are some studies that have just been approved for the fall from some of my favourite strength and hypertrophy researchers. One of them will directly compare full body workouts with bodybuilder triple splits. I’m excited to see the results!
If you’re a serious basketball player you may want to drop the frequency of your muscle-building training to put more emphasis on your sports specific training and athletic performance on the court—perhaps just two full body workouts per week and with a slightly lower intensity (staying a little further away from failure). In the off season you can rev back up your weightlifting to pack on some muscle/strength/power for the next season 🙂
Hey, another great article, love the site. Have you got any new articles on the way?
We’ve got a couple in the works! Next is a skinny-fat article 🙂
We regularly write articles on the member side of the site now, sort of like a magazine. We also try to really put a lot of effort into all of our articles, so we don’t release them all that often. We figure quality > quantity, since there are plenty of blogs already doing the opposite.
Stay tuned!
Wow.
An article about skinny-fat ?!?
When? Where?
It’ll be here on the blog. As for when, it’s hard to say. We don’t publish articles that often. But the article is already partly written and it’ll be the next one we publish 🙂
Hi Shane!
This might be a long shot but here’s to hoping there’s hope for me!
I’ve been skinny all my life and lately I find myself gaining a gut… I’m about 125-130lbs and about 5’7″.
I’m currently a student so not much luck in the financial department.. I only have dumbbells and can probably scavenge my loose coins to afford a pull up bar for my doorway. The good news is the gym at school is free! 🙂
Food wise, I don’t think I can fork out $300 a month. I’m just really tired of feeling tired and unhealthy, not fitting into most of my clothes or being called skinny. It’s so insulting and I’m just so frustrated. Any help would be appreciated, I just don’t know if I can afford to pay you upfront for the program and the knowledge but once I save up enough I will do just that! Please tell me there’s hope for this skinny dreamer.
Sincerely,
A desperate bro
There’s always hope, Don! We specialize in guys who have tried many times and failed. (We also deal with quite a few guys who have accidentally grown a gut. Our next article will be on what to do when you’re “skinny-fat”!)
The nutrition side of things doesn’t need to be crazy expensive. Don’t underestimate beans, peas, whole grain bread, potatoes, bananas, rice, etc. There are tons of ridiculously cheap nutritious (and delicious) whole foods out there 🙂
I hope you decide to join us one day!
Hey there nice website, I’ve read and been on so many sites and this would be the best one by far especially for us ectomorphs. I’ve got one question for now I am currently doing the 5×5 I had been doing flat bench with a wide grip but my shoulder would ache how do you recommend on doing the bench. I am trying the incline close grip with my elbows coming down beside my body, thanks
Thanks, May—really glad you liked it!
Body aches are pretty common when you blast away with 5×5 style routines, since you’re always going so heavy. Perhaps scaling back the volume of the super heavy lifting and adding in some lighter rep ranges would reduce your joint pain.
Also, I’d consider switching to dumbbells! The dumbbell bench press may (eventually) solve all of your problems, and may yield even greater growth in your chest.
And oftentimes shoulder joint soreness is due to muscle imbalances. I’d make sure you’re training your back adequately. Many experts recommend two back lifts for every chest lift in order to prevent shoulder pain, alignment issues, muscle imbalances, etc.
For now, you might want to take a break from the benching until the aches go away.
I hope that helps!
Thanks my workout consists of day A and day B, day A is Squats, Bench, Barbell Rows and day B is Deadlifts and Military Press. I try not to train for to long as I’ve heard ectomorphs are pretty easy to overtrain so I like to try keep it to 40mins max especially doing the big compound moves that burn more calories, correct me if I’m wrong. So it’s day A rest day B rest then back to A again. I’m actually trying to gain mass am I going the right way about it? Or is the 5×5 mainly for strength. I would love to join yous but as I don’t know how to use pay pal I cannot pay for it . But in time I will grow enough to ask my G.F how to do it but for now any advice would be helpful thanks.
5×5’s are a simplified way of emphasizing just strength, yeah. If you check out the strength training and powerlifting section above you’ll see the pros and cons of that.
You’re trying to gain mass, but you’re also trying to emphasize burning more calories? Even if your goal were fat loss I wouldn’t really worry about how many calories you’re burning with your weightlifting workouts. It’s usually much easier and more effective to create a calorie deficit by eating less, walking more, etc.
Ahh I don’t know if us ectomorphs are easier to overtrain. We seem to respond pretty fantastically to the research proven “optimal” volume range. In this 2005 study looking into muscle-building genetics (the most thorough study of its kind), the naturally skinny guys saw the greatest muscle gains, and they were following a fairly high volume per muscle group program! (Mind you they were studying just arm growth.)
You will want to be careful with jumping right into doing solely heavy compound lifts though, as the risk of injury is higher with that approach:
https://bonytobeastly.com/ectomorph-weightlifting/
I hope that helps!
No sorry what I meant was I try not to train to long as I’ve heard doing these big compound moves burn a lot of calories which I don’t want, just read all of it very good info. Thinking of lowering my weights going to 4 of 8 reps and superseting them with some isolation movements to get that burn for a couple of weeks and see how that goes. Thanks for the info Shane your the man, ohh and are there any new pics of your transformation would like to see some. Cheers
I wouldn’t worry too much about burning calories with your weightlifting. You could reduce weightlifting volume (total sets/reps per muscle group), yes, but the factor more related to muscle hypertrophy is volume… so you’d be drastically reducing the pace that you build muscle! I’d say optimize volume and then have an extra glass of milk or whatever if you need to. The calorie burn wouldn’t be significant, after all. An extra couple hundred calories per workout, perhaps.
(We got an article on how to eat more as a skinny guy trying to build muscle, and an article that deals with consuming calories while weightlifting.)
I think the most recent photo of us is the one on our “who we are” page. We can take more soon 🙂
Good luck!
Hey Shane,
Loved the article. But how you’re supposed to BUILD muscle in fact? We should focus on slightly higher volume than 5×5, do some accessory work, focus on big lifts, go slightly higher on reps… but how do we actually apply more tension over time, how do we BUILD muscle?
We do straight sets and add 2-5lb on the bar when we can do all prescribed reps on straight sets (say, we lift 100 lb for 10 reps all 4 sets)? We use a rep range (8-10) and add another 2-5 lbs to the bar when we can do the higher end reps? Who do you systematically apply more tension in order to promote muscle growth?
Oops, I meant “How you’re supposed to to systematically (…)”*
You’d try to add weight to the bar, yeah, or increase reps using the same weight (up to a point), or increase training volume per week. If you’re following a proper program all of the strategies to optimize adaptations will be taken care of for you. If you want to design it yourself, that’s where things get extremely complex. You could get a whole university degree on that and still have a lot to learn! However, it’s not like things need to be perfect in order to progress well, so if you enjoy the process of putting together your own plans, just do your best and learn as you go 🙂
Hi, I see that most people who start or comment on here are the 130pounds + range. I’m 5’11 and 115 pounds and I haven’t seen anyone as skinny as me on here. So I was wondering if you’d think the program would work for me?
Absolutely! We get very skinny guys coming in. Hell, Jared and I were very skinny guys coming in. I was 6’2 and 125-130, which is quite similar to you given the slight difference in height.
If anything the program will work even better on you. This isn’t just speculation, studies into muscle growth have come to the same conclusion (study). You’ll be able to build muscle more rapidly than a genetically gifted mesomorph. You’ll be the guy gaining 30+ pounds instead of 20+ 🙂
Love this post.
I think there are some important aspects to lifting heavy that most guys don’t know about, mainly the science that goes behind everything. Great post
Hey guys love the site, I’ve got a real problem with all the things I’ve read and heard I can’t seem to make my mind up on what kind of workout to do either a full body workout a upper lower split or what I’m so confused and I’ve actually been training for awile now and can’t seem to write me up or find a decent enough workout to stick to, would you be able to recommend a workout preferably one with a rest day between workouts as my rest days are my family time thank you oh and I want to train for mass not strength thank yous, yours truly another skinny bloke
Hey May,
Both approaches are valid, so long as the volume takes into consideration what kind of structure you’re following. If you aren’t seeing results, I don’t think that has anything to do with your doing full body or split weightlifting routines.
As for what workout program we recommend… ours of course! 🙂
Hi Shane,
First let me thank for your website. Its so nice to see all this information in the ectomorph point of view.
I am 39 years old. I am a pure ectomorph. 193cm and just 4 months back 65kg.
I tried to gain weight and bodybuilding in the past, but I never had the focus and before the internet it was all very difficult to get info and specially the correct nutrition. On the last 4 months I started weight lifting first at home and then at the gym. I gain 11kg. I am very happy and I would like to continue probably to get the 20kg total. I am not sure my weight gain rhythm will continue like this.
I train always 4x a week. I started top/legs/rest/top/legs/rest/rest and 2 months ago I changed to pec + tricipes/legs/rest/back/shoulders. I just got a new plan from the gym trainer, and I have a lot of sets like for Monday ( 4x machine incline press + 4 bench press + 4 dumbbell inclined press + 4 flies + 4 cable curls + 6 dumbbell curls + 4 preacher curls). With all this sets if I rest 3min I get 90min of training. Before I had 8 sets of pec now I have 16. All of the sets are with 12 repetitions.
My main question is: Is this too much?
I have a lot of commitment and I need to know if I can trust the plan and of course the gym coach.
Thanks,
Pedro
Congrats on the 11 kilos, Pedro—that’s awesome!
It doesn’t sound like the most scientific approach to lifting. I don’t know why you’re using just one rep range. I don’t know why the workouts are divided like that. And the volume seems a little weird. Whether it’s too much depends on a variety of factors though—how close to failure you’re lifting, for example.
I’d say it’s a little intense… but it’s hard to say. It’s not what Marco or I would program but it’s not THAT unreasonable.
Sorry I did a mistake. The train is:
pec + biceps/legs/rest/back/shoulders + triceps
The links to the studies aren’t working. Otherwise, awesome article! I can see you’ve done quite a bit of research and I’m looking forward to applying it in my quest to get bigger.
Hey Paul, thanks for the kind words, man.
The links are working for me. Which ones are giving you trouble? I’ll see what I can do about fixing ’em up 🙂
Under “For Muscle Building”: The third and fourth study links don’t work. However, the other ones that weren’t working are working now. I think it was just a temporary glitch.
Thanks for the catch, Paul—I’ll fix those up pronto 🙂
Do i have to check all of your sources? You claim that low volume training is ineffective compared to higher volume training . But the second last study you cite there concluded exactly the opposite: “All 3 training volumes significantly (p < 0.05) increased muscle size, strength, and upper body power, with no significant between-group differences. There were no significant changes in hormonal concentrations. The results support the use of low volume training for muscular development over a 10-wk period."Hmmmmm….
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/232177076_The_Effect_of_Weight_Training_Volume_on_Hormonal_Output_and_Muscular_Size_and_Function
Hey Jay, we try to look at the overall body of evidence before coming to a conclusion. The studies you see on our site aren’t cherry picked to support our views, rather our views are based on all of those studies.
We included that study because you’re right—not all studies are unanimous. However when ALL studies were considered in a meta-analysis (including that one) you’ll see 40% greater hypertrophy with high volume. Because the overall body of evidence showing 40% greater size gains (and 46% greater strength gains, I think) with higher volume training, that’s what we go for 🙂
Cool. Thanks for the reply. I’m just starting out (I’m 44!) & so glad I found your blog. Very informative & fun to read. Great work!
No problem, man—my pleasure! Good luck, and I hope your holidays are going wonderfully well!
A new (December 24th 2014) study just came out showing a large benefit to higher volume training. Check this study out.
Hey Shane, thanks for the info! I need some help here. I am 17,6’3 very skinny. I am a Sprinter and despite my scrawniness, and weakness I am quite fast (could be due to my West African genetics) I want to sprint at a higher level and would benefit from strength gains. I want to start off by doing calisthenics ( pushups, bodyweight squats etc.) however, I have no clue how to start, in regards to repetition, frequency, and progression eventually to a weight training program for size and speed gains.
Hey Chidi,
We have a very simply callisthenics program included with our program, since some guys can’t sign up for a gym right away, some guys travel and can’t always make it to the gym, some guys want to master the movement patterns with bodyweight before loading up, etc… but why are you keen on starting with callisthenics? If your goal is to get strong and fast, why not progress to a weight training program by starting with a weight training program that’s appropriate for beginners (and ours is, although we also have a more advanced version included for more experienced guys).
If you start with simpler progressions—goblet squats instead of back squats, for example—then you’ll be able to smoothly transition up to the beastly stuff, gaining size and strength (and speed/power) along the way 🙂
If you want to learn more about movement patterns, check this post out.
And this post talks a bit about the benefits of progressions in weightlifting, and how they work.
I hope that helps!
(And of course, our program would teach you all of this in a step-by-step way, and we’d be helping you accomplish your goals on a personal level.)
Hi Shane, I’m 17 years old and joined a local gym just over 5 months ago.
For the first couple of months, I just followed a fairly basic ‘Beginner’s’ workout routine that I found online – a three-day split of full body workouts.
After spending many hours researching online as to what programme to advance onto, I finally decided that I would be better off spending a long period of time focusing solely on strength training, as this would prepare and benefit me better for the future. Eventually, I want to get bigger, more defined muscles, with a lean look and very visible six-pack.
For the past two months I have been following the Stronglifts 5×5 workout (although I have missed last week due to illness, and this set me back at least two weeks). I managed to gain 4kg bodyweight over the first four weeks, and despite my worries of some of this being fat, I’ve been surprised to see that I am beginning to look much more athletic (bigger upper body, in particular) and still have fairly visible abs.
During the week in which I was poorly (and hardly eating) I lost most of this weight. The next gym session I did I was really struggling to lift the weights that I was supposed to be progressing onto, and even weights that I could lift easily enough before. I decided to drop roughly 15% weight on all of my lifts. To make matter worse, I hurt my lower back squatting 70kg with poor form, so it may be at least another week until I can do my squats/deadlifts again.
Almost every day I wish that I could just do a bodybuilding programme that would make me look more aesthetically pleasing at a better rate (even though the 5×5 is doing a pretty good job of this), but I still plan to do the 5×5 routine for as long as I possible can (including the transitions down to 3×5, 3×3 etc when I begin to plateau), and only once I max myself out on this will I switch to a different programme…
…which takes me to my last point… When I do change routine, what would be best for me? I assume by then that I’ll have gained quite a bit of weight, and huge amounts of strength, and that my new goal would be to get bigger AND leaner. Is this practically possible? I read in this article that strength training is the best way to lose fat whilst conserving muscle mass, but then this wouldn’t fit in with my size goals? A bodybuilding programme would yield the best rate of muscle hypertrophy, but can I get leaner at the same time, or would I have to do this later on (after doing some bodybuilding for a while) by adding in cardio or maybe doing more reps, for example?
Sorry for the long read – hope to hear from you soon!
Brad.
That’s awesome, Bradley! Congrats on the four kilos 😀
Sorry to hear about your recent struggles, and that your strength and weight dipped a little bit. Don’t fret, it will spring back quickly. Rebuilding muscle / re-inflating after time off is always a breeze compared to doing it the first time around.
When is the best time to start incorporating more exercise and rep range variety? I would say always! Even if your goal is developing maximal strength, there’s a huge benefit to using a variety of assistance exercises with lighter rep ranges. When do you need to switch routines? Well you don’t ever need to. If you’re seeing great results right now, you can ride those out for as long as you would like. One day you’ll plateau, and at that point it might be worthwhile mixing things up a little (strategically) to keep things moving. We have a lot of guys come into our program from Stronglifts and they do really well 🙂
Can you be bigger and leaner? Of course! Being more muscular actually makes it easier to be leaner. More muscle mass means you’ll be more insulin sensitive. More of what you eat will feed your muscles, less will get stored as fat. This is one of the many reasons that building muscle is so great for longterm health!
Strength training is the best for developing strength. Bodybuilding is good for developing size. A mixed approach to training (strength+bodybuilding) would be as good as bodybuilding for size, as good as strength training for developing strength, and the best approach for conserving muscle mass while losing fat. It would help you accomplish all three of your goals—strength, muscle mass, leanness.
Does that help / make sense?
Thank you Shane! You’re advice sounds great 🙂
The only assistance exercises that I am currently incorporating are Chin-ups, Pull-ups, and Tricep Dips (each once per week), for 3 sets until failure. I’ll start adding weight to each one once I can do 3 sets of at least 10 reps on it.
My back is recovering quickly, so I’ll be getting back to my Stronglifts 5×5 soon, but I am tempted to make some deloads on each workout so that I can ‘start again’ following the last three weeks in which my workouts have been very inconsistent. This will also help me to improve my form to hopefully prevent further injury when I do get back up to the weights I’m currently doing.
When I do get to the cutting stage, and move onto a Strength Training / Bodybuilding (+ Calisthenics) programme like you have suggested, how would I need to adjust my daily calories from my current surplus? Do building muscle size and getting leaner contradict in terms of diet?
Thanks, again.
Brad 🙂
No problem, Bradley!
Gaining weight (e.g. building muscle) requires a calorie surplus whereas losing weight (e.g. losing fat) requires a calorie surplus. Guys can shift in and out of surpluses and deficits even over the course of a day (e.g. surplus surrounding meals, deficit while sleeping) so it’s possible to build muscle while in the surpluses and lose fat while in the deficits. Good training and nutrition really helps with this. Still, I’d recommend focusing on just one goal at a time, and maybe you’ll see a bit of progress in the other as a bonus. (You normally see simultaneous fat loss and muscle gain in guys who are either untrained or detrained.)
You can cut and bulk with various degrees of surpluses and deficits. You might be bulking at 500 calories over your baseline, you might want to cut at 500 calories under your baseline. I’d try to eat as much as you can while cutting though, so starting modest with your deficit is probably wise. Maybe drop 750 calories to go from a bulk to a cut, and then drop further each week as needed (based on the rate that your weight is changing).
I hope that helps 🙂
Great website with good information and well-written posts Shane!
Because of a very tight schedule I only manage to train 2 x week… Do you guys make any special recommendations for that particular sort of situation?
We include coaching with the program because everyone is a little different. We can help you figure that out for sure 🙂
Hey, great website. I gained quite a lot of knowledge from reading up on everything, but I’m still confused as to a couple of things.
I’m an ectomorph who has recently started going to the gym, I am trying to build muscle and gain weight, currently at 60 kg’s.I start my exercises everyday with pushup’s and pull’ups in sets of 4 and then hitting the weight’s. Over the week I exercise for 4 days focusing on 2 major muscle groups per day. Is that approach correct, me being an ecto or should I concentrate on more muscle groups per day so that I end up working the groups several times over the week? Also, are push’ups and pull’ups an advisable way to start off a day in the gym considering that they would fatigue me in the very beginning and weaken my nervous system before I start with the machines and weights , thus leading to lesser energy required for the ‘pump’?
Hey Sunny,
There are a lot of correct ways to train. You could split up by muscle groups or do a split. Both work well. Most research shows that full body workouts done three times per week should be the ideal, but what matters far more is volume per week (total sets / reps) and intensity (how close you go to failure).
I would organize your workout so that you can lift the most weight properly. If the push-ups are getting in the way of that, toss ’em onto the end of your workout instead. Chin-ups are a great way to start though, since that’s a big heavy compound lift that’s hitting a ton of major muscle groups.
I hope that helps!
hey!! thanks for the great reply.
A couple more questions. As an ecto, are you advocating that one should go nearer to failure every wrokout with every exercise or otherwise? and by a full body workout, 3 times a week, do you mean every muscle group of the body worked every alternate day? Wouldn’t that be too taxing? basically, I’m getting confused as to how much exercise would trigger growth and not the opposite cause I feel sometimes I start losing whatever muscle I have, also I dont want to train too less, because that’s just being stupid.
respect
It would be very hard to do so much lifting that you cause your body to lose muscle. I’m not sure if that happens. You just wouldn’t build it as quickly or you’d get sick or lose motivation to train and such.
How close you go to failure and what muscle groups you stimulate each workout really depends on your program. There are a lot of variables and a lot of ways to arrange those variables. If you go to failure you need to less volume, if you train more body parts each workout then you need less volume per body part per workout. We train every muscle group three times per week, and there’s a lot of evidence to show that this is the best way. We also make sure that everything in the program is designed for full body workouts done three times per week.
I know it’s pretty complicated. I think that’s why there’s such a benefit to having a professional program the workouts if you’re looking for remarkable results. I still don’t design my own training program, I let Marco—the guy with the university degree and the training—handle that stuff. However if that isn’t up your alley, you’ll still make progress if you just do the best that you can do, keep track of your progress as you go, and learn along the way 🙂
Hey Shane, like the guys shown above I’m pretty much banging my head against the wall with my attempts to gain muscle. I’ve been working out for almost 3 years now and I have not seen anywhere near the results I was expecting. I’m 32, 6ft 2″ and 12 stone.
I’m full of energy and would workout everyday if I could. I also find I gain some fat around my waist if I’m not careful (currently about 15% bf).
My routine is shown below:
Monday: bench 5×5, neg chins, weighted dips 3×5, deadlifts 3×8
Tuesday: db bench 3×8-12, db rows 3×8-12, db military 3×8-12, neg chins
Weds: squats plus other legs exercises
Thursday: military 5×5, neg chins, bw dips to failure, deadlifts 3×8
Friday: repeat Tuesday
I’m really disappointment with my progress since finishing my first year (2 years ago!). I seem to be building no mass and continue to be poor at chins. I’ve looked into Anthony mychall’s website about the whole skinny fat thing and am wondering if this relates to me or does your approach suit my needs more (and does it really matter). Any advice would be welcome because I’ve been going in circles and it’s starting to get my down.
I love gaining strength but I really would like to build some mass on my upper body. My legs (excluding calves) and arse seem to get bigger much easier which is why I swapped a leg day for another upper body day as I was becoming disproportioned and didn’t want to look like a wolly.
I’ve been following the leangains diet for a while as another aid to help me but I find it very difficult to put so much food away in such a short window. Any advice appreciated!
Hey Pete,
Anthony Mychal seems like a cool dude! We’ve spoken a bit and he certainly knows his stuff.
Do you need to be taking advice specifically for skinny-fat guys? People don’t usually fit in a body type perfectly, it’s about learning how your body responds and adjusting accordingly. You could have a greater tendency to store fat than other ectomorphs, so your approach may be a little bit different. Maybe you need to build muscle a little more slowly, or you need slightly different macros, or you need a little cardio on the side. 15% is actually quite lean though! You can certainly get leaner, but it sounds like you’re far from skinny-fat.
(We help all types of skinny guys—skinny skinny, skinny guys who have already built some muscle, skinny-fat guys, etc.)
I’d recommend following a program that involves both weightlifting and nutrition, and then getting help to customize it as you see how you respond to it. I’m not sure what factor is holding you back. Perhaps too little emphasis on recovery, perhaps too little periodization—it’s hard to say. I think you’d really like our program, and we can help you get to the bottom of it on an individual level 🙂
LeanGains is an evidence-based approach to nutrition that works well for naturally chubby guys with huge appetites and stomach capacities who are looking to lose weight and retain muscle mass. However, it doesn’t match up with your goals at all. Not only will it be hard to get your calories/macros in, the small feeding window doesn’t allow you to stimulate muscle protein synthesis very well. Even if you’re able to progress, which will be difficult, you’ll be progressing much more slowly than you could be!
I hope that helps, and I hope you decide to join us! You sound like a really good fit 🙂
So, I need this, but for girls… hahha
Muahaha, check out Bony to Bombshell 😀
What the… OMG thank you, definitely gonna
check it out! Thanks.
Our pleasure! 🙂
A little late to the party.
Good stuff. But I had to add that there is a lot to be said for just focusing on a few very potent movements, particularly the full squat, the bench press, the one-arm row, and the deadlift. I was a skinny/skinny bastard, 125 lbs and 5’10”. I didn’t start filling out till I dropped all my “bodybuilding” nonsense and just focused on becoming as strong as possible. Now I’m usually around 180 lbs and have full squatted double bodyweight, power squatted 420 lbs in USAPL with just a belt, and deadlifted over 500 lbs in the same meet. This is all with just doing the competition lifts. The only variation I do is Olympic style (high bar squat, conventional deadlift) clversus Powerlifting style (low bar squat with belt, sumo deadlift with belt). I find that the Olympic style better builds strength for me to maximize the Powerlifiting style in competition.
I maximized my muscular bodyweight by doing just four or five basic movements and programming intelligently. I learned the hard way to allow for enough healing and recovery between bouts of sensibly low volume and high intensity. I relied on much higher volume with squats and benches in the past, but I kept getting hurt. Now I just do 1-3 sets of triples at my top set and I keep progressing. That progress is very slow now because I’m near my natural potential in terms of muscle mass and strength, and I’m just plain getting old. But it is still coming.
These articles are good. But I had to share my experience. I started as a 125-lb adult and became a 185-lb adult who was much, much stronger thanks to shooting for strength goals in the basics.
Admittedly when I’m trying to be my strongest I cannot afford to worry about bodyfat levels and muscular definition. But I can get into beach mode in just six weeks if I’m willing to lose a few pounds of muscle and fat. I rather be strong most of the time, and I only have to be shirtless in public a handful of times each year.
+55 pounds?! Nice. That’s sweet, Gary—congratulations 🙂
I’m not saying that straight up strength training—focusing just on a few big powerlifting lifts—won’t work. All I’m saying is that the research unequivocally shows that it’s not the quickest, safest or most balanced way to build muscle mass (or even to develop strength).
“Less is more” sounds really good. I even have a t-shirt with that written on it. However with weightlifting, oftentimes “more is more.” More exercise variety leads to greater strength gains on the big lifts and more balanced muscular development. More bodybuilding style training added to strength training leads to greater volume without much increasing recovery time (since it’s lighter and less stressful on the central nervous system, joints, etc), which increases muscle size and leads to greater strength. (Adding strength training to bodybuilding improves results as well.) The links to all of the studies that show this are in the article in their respective sections.
(This can be done without making things super complicated or super time consuming, either. Doing 3 sets of chin-ups and 3 sets of biceps curls isn’t much more complicated than doing 5 sets of chin-ups but far more effective at developing the biceps. And since curls require less rest between sets, those 3+3 sets could be finished more quickly than the 5 sets of straight up chin-ups.)
However that doesn’t mean that amazing progress can’t be made by using another approach, as you’ve discovered first hand. I didn’t mean to imply that there was just one way to make progress. Rather, I was trying to discuss a way to optimize all the variables that we can to make things quicker, easier, safer, better, etc.
I hope that makes sense.
And congrats again on your progress! I’m still just a couple years into lifting and have a long way to go yet, but I hope to get a 500 pound deadlift one day 🙂
Thanks for the response. Instead of arguing I tooled around to find stuff to expand my point of view. I found this blog post through Anthony Mychal’s blog.
I am biased toward believing that for completely natural hobbyists (i.e. enthusiasts who don’t get paid for their endeavors) with light frames a strength-focused program is plenty. I probably looked a tiny bit better naked when I was “bodybuilding”, but that was because of lower bodyfat levels, not because of the etchings I made in my toothpick body with a variety of movements 🙂
But I concede your point! I think for those who don’t get bitten by the strength maximization bug you provide a breezily written, easily digestible alternative.
I would just add, however, that to hit a 500-lb deadlift you will have to put in a stretch of strength specialization! You won’t less squat strength to power such a deadlift if like a lot of ectos your build is deadlift-favored. But conservatively you are going to need to squat mid-300’s Olympic style and low-400’s powerlifting style to get there. However you get there, best of luck!
No problem, Gary. Thank you for the comment! And damn, dude—what a thoughtful response! You’re the exact opposite of a troll 🙂
Bret “The Glute Guy” Contreras is a wickedly smart and well-researched dude. I make sure to read all of his stuff (especially for our sister program, Bony to Bombshell, which focuses more on the glutes). That’s a great source to reference.
For the sake of argument here (because I think that’s a way for everyone to learn more)…
One of the things he mentions in that article is volume. (He calls it time under tension.) When volume is matched bodybuilders and powerlifters grow the same amount, so I think it’s a good point to focus on. Bodybuilders will often do a lot more sets and reps than powerlifters overall, since they require less rest time between sets, the lifting is easier on the joints, it’s easier to recover from, etc. It seems like you ran into this issue as well, saying that you needed to reduce your lifting volume when you switched to powerlifting in order to stay healthy.
Studies have confirmed this. For example, last year Dr. Schoenfeld put experienced lifters on a volume-matched powerlifting or bodybuilding program. The powerlifting group would do 10 sets of 3 reps for all the lifts. The bodybuilders would do 3 sets of 10 for all the lifts. Same total reps overall. Both the powerlifters and bodybuilders built the same amount of muscle, since volume was matched, and volume is the most important growth factor. However, the powerlifters spent twice as long training, felt chronically lethargic, and were wearing down their joints, whereas the bodybuilders felt fresh and ready for more. Schoenfeld speculated that the powerlifters were already lifting beyond their ability to recover, while the bodybuilders could have handled more volume… and could thus gotten even more growth.
This means that for the natural muscle-building hobbyists, they could get better aesthetic, size and health results by bodybuilding. The strength training group did develop more max strength, so if absolute 1-rep-max strength is the goal, then in that case powerlifting training was superior. Keep in mind that for anything above a few reps though, the bodybuilders probably would have been stronger. In the case of picking up and moving a couch, say, or picking up and moving a girlfriend, the bodybuilder would probably do better. In the case of picking up a fridge and then quickly dropping it, the powerlifter would probably do better.
However thinking in terms of bodybuilding versus powerlifting is creating a false dichotomy. Both can easily be incorporated into a lifting program to get the best of all worlds. You can gain strength without wearing yourself down by keeping the powerlifting training to a reasonable volume, then add more muscle size by adding in bodybuilding lifts.
Lots of research has shown that this not only gives you a balance of both size and strength, but that the bodybuilding added to the strength training improves strength gains, and that the strength training added to the bodybuilding improves size gains. They work together synergistically 🙂
It’s worked well for me. Starting at 6’2 and 130 pounds with a 135 pound raised deadlift, over the course of three years I added 50-60 pounds to my body and nearly 300 pounds to my deadlift. Scientifically most research seems to be showing that a mix is best for both size and strength goals. And as far as experts go, it’s also the approach adopted by all of the modern drug-free world-record-holding powerlifters that I know of—Layne Norton, Jordan Syatt, Greg Nuckols, etc.
It also seems to have worked for you! From the sounds of it, you’ve developed a great amount of size with bodybuilding, a great amount of strength with powerlifting. The powerlifting has also made you bigger. Surely the bodybuilding helped make you stronger. While currently you might not be doing both, many of the benefits of both powerlifting and bodybuilding are fairly permanent. You’re a good example of both being great, no?
Admittedly one thing we aren’t mentioning is personal preference. If someone prefers strength training for whatever reason (it’s less painful for one), then why not just do strength training? If someone prefers bodybuilding for whatever reason (perhaps because it’s quicker and safer), then why not just do bodybuilding?
I’m just saying that if someone prefers getting optimal results, then a mix is ideal. But once they build a body they’re stoked with, as you have, then going back to pursuing goals simply for the purposes of fun and athleticism makes a lot of sense 🙂
Testi
Hi Shane
I keep wondering what’s the best way to maintain a rep range is?
For example in doing a 4×8 should I do something like 1×8 first set, 1×7 second set, 1×6 thrid set…
Or maybe it’s better to choose a smaller weight I can lift for 10 reps so as to lift it exactly 8 times at each set without failure?
Or maybe it’s better to pyramid the set 4×8 then removing some weight and doing 1×8, 1×9, 1×10.
What’s your thought?
Thanks!
Hey Jared,
Let’s say you’re lifting 225 pounds and aiming for 8 reps. You lift 8×225, you show up to your next set weaker and get 7×225, then 6×225, then 5×225. That’s 26 reps with 225. Instead of squeezing that extra rep in that first set just to hit your 8 rep target, you’d get more total volume by leaving a rep (or two) in the tank and doing 7×225, 7×225, 7×225, 7×225 (28 reps total with 225). That’s not a huge difference, but over time that extra volume could lead to extra muscle growth.
In your case, if you want to get 8 reps in all sets, you’d need to lower the weight a little. Maybe 215 pounds. And maybe the opposite happens. In your first set you realize you get to 8 reps and still have 2-3 reps in the tank, so you do 9 reps. Then another 9, and another 9, and another 9. Next week you go heavier, since you’ve exceeded your rep goal.
The goal is to get more reps overall with the heaviest weight you can manage, and thus more volume, and thus more growth. It doesn’t need to be perfect though. Doing 8,7,6,5 one week isn’t the end of the world, you just don’t go up in weight next week. And then maybe next week you get 8,8,7,6 or whatever—increasing your total volume 🙂
Does that help / make sense?
Shane
Today I was talking with a friend who is all about 5×5 and minimalist routine.
He if a fan of Starting Strenght which is very simple: squat, bench/press, deadlift/clean 3 times a week. That’s it
I was trying to explain that some muscles are going to be negleted, that the rep range is not the best for hypertrophy and there’s too much leg work compared to upper body.
So he eventually asked “how would you tweak it this scheme so make it better for hypertrophy”?
And I was wondering what would you answer to this question.
I know that it’s better to use a better program that tweaking this one, but it’s just a game of sort. How would you maintain the scheme while adding things or changing reps, sets in order to make it more complete and hypertrophic?
I’m not that familiar with Starting Strength programming. I know the idea behind it and I’ve read the book, but it’s never really lined up with my goals, so I’ve never actually done the program. I think you’re exactly right with your evaluation of it. It’s putting simplicity over results, strength over size.
I think you could even make better strength gains if you put a bit more emphasis on size/variety too, as several studies have shown. However you’d lose the minimalist simplicity, which I think a lot of people really love.
To make it better for hypertrophy you’re on exactly the right track. You’d add in more upper body volume, vary the rep ranges more, add in some assistance/isolation lifts.
Instead of 5×5, could do 3 sets of 5 reps, then 2 sets of 10 reps of an assistance lift. Three sets of bench press + two sets of flys. On another day you do 3 sets of overhead presses + 2 sets of lighter lateral raises.
Those lighter sets should be less stressful on your body and require less rest between sets. That frees up more time and energy for isolation lifts for the areas you’re eager to grow. So you bring in some bicep curls and tricep extensions or something.
I think that would be a fairly simple way to do it. What do you think?
(There are no upper back exercises? For bicep/back growth you might want some vertical and horizontal pulls. Chin-ups and rows, for example.)
Make sense and yes it’s still the same scheme but very easy to figure out how to add extra hypertrophy work. Great reply as always!
What do you think about the frequency though? Isn’t squatting 3 times a week a bit too much even with less sets and the added lighter work?
Also I see 10 reps is considered light but how come a weight that I can lift 10 times seems actually pretty heavy for me? Maybe I’m using not a real 10, maybe it’s a real 8-9 where I grind that last rep with less control, bad form and breathless? Could it be?
Nah, squatting three times per week is totally fine, so long as your intensity is okay. If you’re doing heavy 5×5 sets and going all the way to failure then yeah, maybe it will be too much. But if you’re leaving a rep or two in the tank and/or including some higher rep stuff, then you should be just fine.
However I should also point out that the most we back squat (or deadlift, chin-up, barbell bench press, etc) in our program is twice per week. We like to hit our muscles with more variety, so maybe we do heavy bench presses and chin-ups on Monday, push-ups and rows on Wednesday, then higher rep bench presses and chin-ups on Friday.
In the early phases though we like getting guys practicing goblet squats 2-3 times per week with moderate reps (8-12) just to develop a mastery of that movement pattern though. The better you get at a movement pattern, the more you can get out of a lift. While more variety would technically be better for muscle growth, the extra specific practice early on can be helpful. Then once you’re proficient at the lift you start adding more variations into your arsenal, building it up bigger and bigger.
That’s not the only way to do it, but it works very well.
Why do reps of 10 feel heavy? Because that’s the heaviest you can lift for 10 reps! The reason we call them light sets is because the weight will be lighter than what you would use for lower reps. If you can do 1 rep with 315 pounds on the deadlift, you might be able to get 10 reps with 225 pounds. The 225 pounds is lighter, even though that 10 rep set will be bloody murder to finish.
And yep, depending on your program, you may or may not want to go to failure. All depends on how intensity and volume are balanced. If you’re squatting heavy 3x per week I imagine that volume/frequency is prioritized over intensity, so you’d probably want to stay away from failure.
Great stuff. I really appreciate all the effort you have poured into this program. I think there is something missing. I think you should include a chapter in your program –I have read the chapter index, or an article on your site about steroids usage. Too many YouTube videos, muscle magazines, etc. recommend workout programs that only work optimally if you are on the juice –but there are no disclaimers.
People need to know what a natural body looks like at full potential, and what someone on steroids looks like. For example, Joe Manganiello looks about as good as you can get naturally. However, Kane Sumabat uses (and denies it), but he just doesn’t look as obvious as someone like Jay Cutler.
Anyway, my point is, I think you would be doing everyone a huge favor by informing them on how common steroid usage is, and educating them on what realistic goals are for steroid-free lifting. I think many people, including myself, can get discouraged when they compare their results to all these super ripped, generically enhanced builders that won’t openly admit that they use. Know your limits.
Thanks for the kind words, man 🙂
As you may have guessed, none of us are steroid users. Jared and I are computer nerds who love doing research online. We don’t even know people who use steroids. Marco may, but he’s pretty far removed from that circle too.
We do make sure to only reference studies done on natural guys though. You’re right—a lot of programs are based on anecdotal evidence from professional bodybuilders with great genetics and great pharmaceuticals. Ours is not one of those programs. Our program is based on exercise science and copious amounts of research. Moreover, all of our anecdotes and personal experience are from the perspective of guys with fairly meh genetics—we’re not just natural, but also naturally extremely skinny! 😉
There are a couple things to keep in mind. First of all, Kane Sumabat has decades of lifting under his belt and might have world class genetics. The photos you’re looking at aren’t representative of how he normally looks, either. He probably looks that way for just long enough to snap a photo or to shoot a video. 15 minutes, maybe—while he’s dieted down to an extremely lean level + pumped up. It’s not totally impossible that he’s natural.
Second, Joe Manganiello might be using steroids! Just because someone isn’t super ripped or enormous, that doesn’t mean they aren’t using steroids. Someone may take steroids and wind up much smaller than a natural with a more strategic approach to training and nutrition, more consistency or better genetics.
You could say that looking at old school bodybuilders from the 40’s would be a good idea of what some people can achieve naturally. Steroids didn’t exist yet, so they were all natural. Mind you, they had the best genetics in the world.
What can regular people achieve? Far less. What can people with poor genetics achieve? Far less still.
Looking like Ryan Gosling might be the best that someone can do. That’s a whole helluva lot smaller and fatter than Kane Sumabat and Joe Manganiello, but still leaner and more muscular than you need to be to look optimally attractive and be optimally healthy 🙂
I’ve been thinking about this for the past hour and I think you’re right. I think we should make it free information too. We’ll put it up on the blog.
There’s a lot of information up online about what can be achieved naturally, but most of it is written for professional or aspiring bodybuilders and athletes—people who are trying to figure out what’s achievable by the most genetically blessed people in the world.
I think we should write a post focusing on what’s achievable by naturally skinny guys.
I’m going to get to work on this.
That’s great news. I see I didn’t adequately make my point very clear in my first comment, but I think you got the gist.
I don’t know if Joe M. ever did roids. I just meant that his body is, in my opinion, about the best you could expect.
As for Kane, who knows? In my opinion it is very unlikely that he is juice-free. If he is, then he really is a rare snowflake.
BTW, I think Eugen Sandow is a great example of full natural potential.
My point was, with all these questions about the right workout, people should know that the success of many or most muscle mag routines assumes the use of steroids. Plus, you need realistic goals and expectations. Steroid and hormone injection is so common now days that yes, even movie stars use them to boost their results.
I am a very tall ectomorph. Every time I go to the gym, I see either other ecto’s following the advice and routines of non ecto’s, or worse yet I see them following the advice and routines of steroid users. It makes me so sad because I know from my own experience his things are going to end for them: disappointed and defeated.
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. You get Arnold Schwarzenegger and his buddies experimenting in the gym to figure out the best ways to build muscle, these techniques get written about in bodybuilding magazines, amateur bodybuilders and personal trainers read about them and bring them to commercial gyms, and bam—you’ve got everyday dudes doing routines designed around the personal experimentation of extremely genetically gifted pharmaceutically enhanced bodybuilders who have been lifting for decades. Those routines are pretty much the exact opposite of what’s appropriate for a skinny guy trying to build some muscle.
Whether or not Kane Sumabat is natural, you’re right, it’s not a physique that’s realistically attainable by 99.9% of the population. However, I think giving the benefit of the doubt helps—and not just because he lives here in Toronto and has a killer hairdo 😉
Eugen Sandow is a great example of what’s achievable naturally by the genetic elite given a lifetime of dedicated training.
[…] (For more details on the different styles of exercise and the adaptations they encourage, check out our article, The Skinny on “Just Lift Heavy.) […]
[…] There’s also some truth to the idea that bodybuilders tend to focus on growing their muscles via metabolic stress (“the pump”) instead of exclusively via mechanical tension (lifting heavy). This can affect how your body adapts, although many of the myths surrounding bulkier guys, like being slow or inflexible, are false. We wrote up an article on the different types of exercise / weightlifting and the muscular adaptions they cause here. […]
[…] How to build muscle leanly with exercise / weightlifting […]
Hello! Great post, as always. I have a question regarding my workout routine and I’d love to get your expertise. I’m at the moment doing 5×5 mon, wed, fri that includes squats, deadlifts, barbell rows, bench press and overhead press. After I read this article I’m curious to try adding some accessory lifts also, but the gym I’m training at doesn’t have enough equipment for it. Or at least the dumbbells aren’t heavy enough, and the machines are ancient. Are there other solutions to do this? Can I use the barbell to do enough accessory lifts as a complement? Take care 🙂
Hey Marcus, glad you liked it! Thanks 🙂
you can use barbells to do accessory movements for sure. Close-grip bench press for the triceps, and barbell curls for the biceps, for a couple examples. Some accessory movements don’t require very heavy dumbbells either. Most guys can’t do lateral raises with more than 30 pounds, for example.
Nice article!
Agreed and muscle building can be simple! For some people even 2 times a week is enough as long as you lift heavy and keep trying to increase your weights.
But as famous bodybuilding legend Vince Gironda said, 85% is nutrition. Diet is key to gaining, maintaining as well as losing fat!
Well said, Alex! I agree 🙂
[…] isn’t my favourite way to design a routine for several good reasons, outlined in this article, but these programs are not at all […]
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[…] a website that offers a training program specifically aimed at skinny fellas like you and I, uses a combination of both compound and hypertrophy rep ranges. The results their clients have received says […]
Only on a deranged bodybuilding site is a before image of Casey Viator considered bony.
Hey JD, thanks for the kind words. We weren’t calling Casey Viator bony, though. Quite the opposite: he’s one of the most muscular people to ever exist.
[…] The best type of exercise for ectomorphs trying to build muscle […]
[…] Here’s our article about which type of lifting is best for gaining muscle size. […]
[…] right intensity, and doing enough volume (sets/reps) per muscle group without fatiguing yourself. (Here’s our article comparing different types of lifting and how effective they are for building […]
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Shane,
Great article. I’ve read a great deal of your postings and truly appreciate your clarity, humor and grounded approach. I’ve been lifting off and on for 35 years now – I’m a 52! Also, I’m 6’6″. I’ve had a modicum of successes over the years with working on filling out that fram; consistency remaining my biggest challenge. I am really liking the The B2B program though and am pleased with how my body has already responded having just come off a months long time of relative inactivity.
My main query though is, Do you have any articles you’ve researched and written – or resources you can point me to – regarding ectomorph training and gaining at this age range?
Congrats on building what appears to be a beautiful life for yourself. Gratitude to the B2B crew.
Shawn
Haha, lots of typos in my note..maybe I shouldn’t submit until I’ve had a cup of coffee =P
Hey Shawn, stoked to hear that you’re liking the b2B program!
Lifting as an older guy is a great idea for a blog post. The reason we haven’t written much about it yet is simply because most of our members are under 70, and under 70, people tend to gain muscle and strength fairly similarly.
Lifting isn’t an extreme sport with early peaks, early retirements, and high injury rates. You’re a great example of that, having lifted for 35 years! So in the research, we tend to see similar rates of muscle growth and strength gain up until pretty old ages (around 60–70).
There are definitely some nuances, though. Marco is great at that stuff. That might be a good article for him to write, now that you’re mentioning it. We should probably brush up on that research, too. It’s been a few years.
I’m going to put that on our list of articles to write 🙂
Thanks for the response here, Shane. I hadn’t come across the 70yrs threshold and find that surprising and gained some optimism. I’ll keep and eye out for the “old buck” article!
-s
[…] organizations mean anyway. They simply mean lifting weights in a way that will make you stronger. A good bulking workout will certainly make you […]
Hi. Just looking for advice. No-one seems able to help me…. I am a true ectomorph – tall, long limbs, thin wrists etc. I used to work out 3 days a week, increasing the weight used or reps every week, I was consistent, I did mainly compound exercises – 3-4 sets of 8 reps, some exercises i did 12 reps.
I ate enough protein, 172g as I weighed 172ibs when I began. I gained 20lbs in 7 months, as I was eating 3400 calories a day, more or less, however, I still have NO MUSCLE at all. I am not fat either. What’s happening? What else can i do? Lack of testosterone or lack of sleep the reason? I’ve had my thyroid tested, but that’s fine.
Why can’t I build any muscle, but can gain weight???
Thanks. Adam from The UK
Well, if you gained 20 pounds while consistently gaining strength and without gaining fat, you certainly made some awesome progress. As for why you still aren’t muscular, maybe you started off fairly skinny—as we did—and you need to gain even more muscle.
I gained 55 pounds, Marco gained 63, Jared gained 50. Maybe you just need to keep going. It sounds like what you’re doing is helping you bulk up, so maybe all it will take is some more patience.
Thanks for the reply. I’m hoping it’s just a matter of patience then. I thought maybe it could be diet related or too much cortisol, as I do get stressed, working so much. Thanks.
My pleasure, man. Best of luck bulking up!
Also, I did use progressive overload too, I increased the weight or reps every week and still nothing to show for it. I do work 60 hours a week too, just to add. Thanks. Adam
[…] easy, but everyone—including skinny ectomorph hardgainers—can build muscle if they learn how to exercise and eat a bulking diet that suits their body […]
[…] to bodyweight workouts to bodybuilding. Now, as a general rule, we recommend that you do dedicated hypertrophy training if your goal is to bulk up, but for the purposes of this article, let’s talk about how to get […]
[…] Hypertrophy training is best for making you bigger and stronger. […]
[…] percentage points. This is true even for skinny guys. If you haven’t built much muscle yet, a good muscle-building program combined with a good cutting diet should allow you to gain a few pounds of muscle even while you […]
[…] you’ve read our article about how skinny guys should lift to gain muscle size, then you know that we build our bulking routines around the “Big 5” compound […]
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[…] good news is that it’s quite rare to get a back injury while following a good hypertrophy program. Lower back injuries are more common in sedentary people going about their day-to-day lives as they […]
[…] Hypertrophy training increases insulin sensitivity (study) […]
Hey Shane, awesome article my dude. Lots of value in it for skinny guys, that’s for sure!
After struggling myself as a skinny guy – through years of experimenting with many different methods (just like yourself) – I adapted my own method focusing on strength and hypertrophy. I like to use a hybrid of Reverse Pyramid Training (RPT) and accessory work in the 8-12RM range. First, utilizing compound lifts, I use Double Progression with repetition ranges in RPT, for example, 4-6RM (then drop the weight 10%), 6-8RM (drop it another 10%), and then 8-10RM (and MAYBE add in another set at 10-12).
Then, depending on the workout focus – the accessory work will involve biceps, triceps, and calves in the 8-12RM range.
Cool idea on the neck curls man. Never thought to do neck-training, but I used to be in martial arts and would do a lot of neck bridges. Between those and grappling I acquired a decent amount of stimulus on the neck. I definitely see how neck curls would be beneficial for scrawny guys.
Awesome work! Cheers.
Hey Jason, I saw your name pop up on Quora the other day, loved your answer, and checked out your site. It’s awesome! I got sucked right into your stories. You’re a great writer.
Your transformation is absolutely GNARLY, too. Totally killer.
As far as reverse pyramid training goes, I’ve always meant to try it. It sounds great.
Double progression is a robust way of progression, too. I should probably write an article on that, now that you mention it.
[…] However, the reason they’re on this list is far more rad than that. Recent research is showing that consuming foods that are high in nitrates—such as spinach and beets—is an effective way of improving the “pump” that we get from lifting weights (at least when doing hypertrophy training). […]
So I am a big advocate for body weight workouts. 1 because Im super busy and sometimes dont feel like driving to the gym and I can also get a quick workout at home before I shower and 2 I live in a major city and my gym is ALWAYS packed with people. With too many people around it can throw my concentration off. I like to keep it pretty simple but still want to gain more mass but I hit a roof in my gains. So I recently purchased this body-weight program that helps with gaining muscle and maintaining hypertrophy. I should be receiving it soon I can let you know how it turns out !
If you want to check it out on your own heres the link yo : https://getgainz631038142.wordpress.com I thought it was SPAM until I got confirmation email and tracking number . So we’ll see if it works
[…] Depending on what you’re doing, there’s a good chance there’s a bulking workout that’s less tiring but does a better job of stimulating muscle growth. (And if you’re curious about what makes a good bulking workout, check out our article about hypertrophy training.) […]
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[…] even though barbell curls are often thought of as a bodybuilding and aesthetics lift, they’re actually pretty great for our general strength and posture. […]
Thanks for the great article, it had great information and I plan on reading more on the website.
My question for you, if I don’t have access to a gym and only a bench with
52.5 lbs Dumb bells, and a chin up bar. Will your program work for me or is more equipment necessary?
[…] a strength protocol, the other doing a hypertrophy protocol. Not surprisingly, the group doing hypertrophy training gained quite a bit more muscle than the group doing strength […]
[…] thing is that no matter what tools we’re using to build muscle, all of the same rules of hypertrophy training still apply. Everything you know about lifting weights remains true with resistance bands. We still […]
To whom it may concern,
I would first like to say what an amazing site you guys have, it has really helped me understand how to lift better!!!
I am an 18 year old male, 6 feet and 140 pounds.
I have switched from doing a chest tricep day and back bicep day on alternating days to a full body workout day, 3-4 times a week. I now do the workout listed below, which takes an hour to an hour and a half, every other day. I was just hoping you could tell me if this is a good order to do stuff in, and wether I should do this full body workout 3 times a week, or instead switch back to chest/tri and back/bi which would mean working out 6-7 days a week.
MY FULL BODY WORKOUT (all exercises in order they are listed. all in one session)
pull ups
chin ups
bent over rows
isolation back pull with dumbbell
barbell curl
bicep curls
Then…
pushups
overhead press
tricep dips
overhead tricep lift
tricep isolation pulls.
Thank you so much for any advice
Hey Craig, it’s not necessarily that full-body training is better than splits, it’s just that training each muscle group 2–4 times per week is better than just 1–2 times per week. If you’re training 3x per week, that means full-body workouts. If you’re training six days per week, you could do a body-part split. Totally up to you which you prefer. If you aren’t doing any leg lifts, though, I don’t see any need to do splits.
The next thing to consider is how many sets per muscle group to do per workout. 4–8 seems to be ideal. Here’s an article about min-maxing training volume and dividing it up between workouts.
For your specific exercise choices, I’d do something more like:
Chin-Ups
Overhead Press
Barbell Curls
Push-Ups
Overhead Triceps Extensions
And then the next workout:
Pull-Ups
Deficit Push-Ups
Bent-Over Rows
Biceps Curls
Triceps Dips
Lateral Raises
That way you have two distinct workouts you can cycle between, and each has a more reasonable volume per muscle group per workout.
I hope that helps!
Hi Shane,
Thanks so much for the info.
just a clarification- For the 2 workouts you suggested, would you recommend I them alternating days, so 6-7 days a week? Or instead, do each one with a rest day in between, so 3-4 days a week?
Thanks
Craig
also, one more thing, *sorry!
would you recommend 6-7 sets per individual exercise, or 3-4 sets.
There are a lot of factors that go into how high your training volume should be. Check out that article on training volume I linked you. I know it’s long, but your entire program needs to have all of the factors aligned with one another. For example, when using short rest times, better to do more sets per muscle group. Or when training to failure, total training volume needs to be lower. Or how you might want to have higher volumes for certain muscles.
When talking about the number of sets, we’re talking about sets that challenge a given muscle group, not sets per exercise.
You mentioned a lot how you prefer full body 3x/wk for beginners/intermediates. What are your preferred splits for people that reach more advanced levels with maybe 10yrs training under their belt?
I think it really depends on your preferences at that point. The optimal training frequency per muscle group is still 2–3x per week, so more experienced lifters can still make optimal progress with three full-body workouts per week. But it might be harder. As we get stronger, the workouts can become longer and more tiring. Instead of resting two minutes between sets of 135-pound front squats, it might mean resting five minutes between sets of 315-pound front squats. And them moving over to chin-ups with a hundred pounds around your waist. That’s a whole different beast. At that point, it might be easier to do your squats one day, toss in some accessory work, and then do chin-ups with accessories the next day. The extra workout days are a way of managing energy and fatigue.
The other thing to consider is that as we become more advanced, it can become almost impossible to train every single muscle group enough to stimulate muscle growth. If you’re trying to grow all of the bigger muscles and your calves, and your forearms, and your neck, and so on—that’s rough. That doesn’t necessarily call for training more often, but it can. It can also make specialization phases really handy. Spend a few months maintaining your legs and arms while focusing on your chest and back. Then maintain your chest, back, and legs while focusing on your arms. Then maintain your chest, back, and arms while focusing on your legs. That way you can make solid progress in some areas without overdoing it overall.
It also depends on what your goals are. If you’re all about getting bigger and more muscular, it certainly makes sense to spend more time lifting weights. But if you’re trying to build muscle while also being optimally healthy, maybe that means 3–4 weight training workouts along with 1–3 cardio workouts. And again, that can be arranged into specialization phases. You can focus on building muscle for a few months and then switch to a focus on improving cardio.
So I’d say the main change as we become more advanced is that we need to get more comfortable focusing on narrower goals while keeping our previous adaptations on the backburner. But to specifically answer your question, I think 3–5 workouts per week for advanced lifters is great during periods where we’re actively trying to gain muscle overall.
An article is pretty old. Looks like by 2019 you figured out that Pathway 1 and Pathway 3 are the same, inflammation is caused by muscle damage that is caused by mechanical tension, and inflammation is good.
I am really grateful for your work, and so happy I found this website. I used similarly science-based materials to guide 30 lbs of weight loss via IF (17:7), and having quality info helped a lot.
While losing weight, I worked out and gained strength. Now I’m looking to work out more efficiently and gain 5-10 lbs of muscle mass, while maintaining or losing fat.
I’m a 56yo male, and at this age muscle gain is going to be harder. Any specific advice?
Many thanks again!
Hey Dave, I think you’ll find that you’re in a better position to gain more strength and muscle than you expect. Most research shows that people gain muscle fairly well up until at least 60, and even then, they tend to be able to make pretty good progress. That’s certainly true in our experience, too. Some of our best transformations have been from people in their late fifties.
As you probably know, it’s always wise to consider your joints, do your best to avoid injury, and train cleverly instead of recklessly. That’s true for young folk, too, though.
I think you’ll do great 🙂
Hi Shane,
Do you have any specific articles that focus on periodization? Or articles you have found by reputable sources about periodization? I am struggling to find the right periodization program to maximize hypertrophy (I am 46 and have been lifting for 3 years). My main questions surround sets and rep ranges (% of 1RM) for different cycles and whether I do progressive overload at those rep ranges within the cycles.
Thanks for any info you can provide.
Hey Mike, one of the reasons we haven’t written much about how to periodize a workout program is simply that the research is still fairly young. There are a ton of different methods, many of which have been proven to improve results, at least somewhat. But it’s hard to parse the exact details or which periodization approach is best and why. That can make it hard to write about.
At the moment, the best strength coaches mix research with tried and true methods that have been passed down over time. In our Bony to Beastly Bulking Program, we use a periodization method that Marco learned while studying under Eric Cressey, the head strength coach for the Yankees. We use a variety of rep ranges in every phase, but the program gradually gets heavier from phase to phase. In our Outlift intermediate bulking program, we use a sort of block periodization that’s loosely based on the research of Mike Israetel, PhD. The rep ranges are tighter within the phases, but again, the program gradually goes heavier from phase to phase.
Right now, I think the best researcher writing about periodization is Mike Zourdos, PhD. He writes for Monthly Applications in Strength Sport (MASS). It’s behind a paywall, but it’s worth it.
As someone lifting for “only” three years, you can probably aim for progressive overload during each phase/macrocycle. If you spend a month doing the bench press for sets of 8 repetitions, say, then you can aim to add reps to your sets or weight to the bar every week, when possible. Progress might mean adding reps to later sets, for instance going from 8, then 7, then 6 reps to getting 8 reps in all three sets. Or it might mean adding 5 pounds to the bar. Just fight for progress of any kind. You can then combine that focus on progressive overload with other forms of progression, such as adding sets every week, or inching closer to failure on your sets. But that’s less essential and more debatable.
You’re making me realize that we should really write some articles on periodization. I’m going to add that to my to-do list. We’ll probably write those articles on our Outlift blog, where we write about more intermediate bulking topics 🙂
You had me at “Eventually, with enough patience, you may even be devoured by wolves.”
Loving all the content so far.
I’ve gone from bony to better, beastly is definitely where I’m heading.
Ahaha thank you, Will. That’s awesome. Good luck! 🙂
Hey Shane first i want to thank u for this very great post,,but I am college student in Africa and i have no money to afford the b2b program.
Please do u have any recommendations programs free.pleaseeee help i m tired of being skinny
Does that mean no means to afford a gym membership or lifting equipment, either? If so, you might like this bodyweight hypertrophy training guide.
First off I just want to thank y’all for all the help you give everyone in this community. It truly is inspiring.
I am a 19 year old here. 6 feet, 150 ib. Trying to gain 20 ib in the next couple of months. This is the full split I use, with a rest day every other day. I do about 3 sets per exercise, with 6-10 reps for compound lifts and 2-3 minutes rest between, and 10-15 for isolations lifts with a minute rest between.
I am eating 3k calories a day with tons of protein to try and supplement all this.
-A workout
bench press
Chin-Ups
Pec fly- either machine, or cables.
Overhead Press/Arnold’s.
Hammer curls
Overhead Triceps Extensions
Squats
Quads
-B workout
pull ups
Incline bench/dumbbells
Bent-Over Rows/lat pull downs.
Barbell bicep curl
Triceps Dips/tricep machine/tri rope.
Preacher curls
Leg press
Hamstring
Does anything in my plan look glaringly inefficient or problematic? I have been wondering how to incorporate deadlifts into my workouts as well…
My bench PR has also been failing to increase for the last months now which really disheartens me. It remains at 170ib for 1 rep.
And finally- should I be squatting on both my A and B workout?
Thanks so much for any advice!!!
Hiya, awesome article. I was just wondering how many days a week I should do leg day, if I want to get bigger legs? (my leg day consists of goblet squats, hamstring machine, quad machine, and calves).
I have a A and B full upper body workout that I do every other day- A day, rest day, B day, and so on. I was thinking of putting a leg day in between but would that be too much?
Doing two leg days per week should be pretty ideal. If you’re already doing 3–4 upper body workouts per week, bringing that up to 5–6 workout days per week is a lot, yeah, but it might be doable. It really depends. We’ve got a full article on training frequency here. It goes over some options you might like.
Also, if you want to keep training around 4 days per week, here’s an article that covers how to include your leg training within those 4 workouts.
Hello, I am a 6-foot 19-year-old, and I have been stuck at a weight of 60 kilos for a year now. I am used to working out and am very much into Athletics, so I am kind of used to working out. But I am not doing it anymore because it’s not giving me any change.
I feel very inspired by how quickly you say people like me can gain muscle mass, but I couldn’t really find the exact part where. I was hoping you could reply to this comment and help me out because I don’t know if I should be changing my diet or how I should do my workouts. I really hope I get an answer to this, and I hope that it ends up changing my life. Thank you!
Hey Shone, I hear ya. That was my problem as well. Even when I worked out, I wouldn’t gain weight, and so nothing would change.
The article you’re talking about is probably our newbie gains guide. It talks about how quickly a skinny guy can expect to build muscle when he starts bulking. The catch is, you need to be able to eat enough calories to gain weight, and that’s really hard for most naturally skinny guys. It definitely was for me.
Check these articles out:
Why is it so hard for some skinny guys to gain weight?
How to eat more calories
I think they’ll really help. And if you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I try my best to answer all of the comments 🙂
This is really good articel. I thing a lot of beginers made mistakes when they started work at gym. But with your’s advice they will get fast gains. wish You the best.